Has Aspen become a safe haven for traffickers?
In the December 2, 2005, drug raid in downtown Aspen, Jesus Gabriel Soto Sandoval was arrested in the kitchen of Little Annie’s. At the time of his arrest, officers found on and around him 22 bindles of cocaine that he was dispensing from the kitchen of the restaurant. Even though he was found in possession of a quantity of bindles that would justify distribution, Soto Sandoval was allowed to plead guilty to simple possession of cocaine on January 27, 2006. Credited with time served, he was then turned over to U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) and was deported to Mexico on February 14, 2006.
End of story? Not so fast.
Despite being arrested in one of the biggest drug busts in Aspen, despite dispensing quantities of cocaine associated with a dealer from Little Annie’s–and in spite of pleading guilty and being deported–Soto Sandoval felt so comfortable dealing cocaine in Aspen that he was back within three months or so, working in the kitchen of Campo de Fiori. In short order, he was once again dealing drugs out of the kitchen.
Two agents from ICE and an officer with the Aspen Police Department went to Campo de Fiori and again arrested Soto Sandoval who again had cocaine in his possession.
The Pitkin County Sheriff’s Office was again nowhere to be found. Nor did Sheriff Bob Braudis and his minions have anything to do with the drug busts earlier this month at the car wash at the Aspen Airport Business Center. Drug dealers are safe in Pitkin County thanks to the enlightened policies of Sheriff Braudis.
You’re not going to start talking about voo-doo economics, are you? Drugs are bad for you boys and girls, and remember to wash behind your ears. Who are you to pass judgment as to the moral rightness of chemical consumption? I’m so tired of brown nose media filtering everything to fit the government agenda of total control, trying to create vulnerability through fear and doubt, perfect for the snatching of one’s soul. If drugs are so bad, then why did the government introduce them into society? Remember that little mind control program in the 50′s and 60′s, MKULTRA, was it? The LSD and other drugs used to splinter and control the mind are manufactured by major pharmaceutical companies like Eli Lilly, add to that some programming over the FM waves, throw in some flashing lights and hey, what fun! Dance, little sister, dance. What do you suppose all those “communication” towers are for? Can we seriously rule out mind control today given the lineup of controllers that have stolen their way into public office? Think about it. Why is everybody so at odds with each other? Why do all Democrats and Republicans virtually snap at the mere mention of their opposite, pounce on them blaming, and accusing them for every perceived fault in society? We ALL need to pay attention to what is triggering our emotions, and if that rings true to our beliefs, vote, and vote loudly and clearly.
You’re barking up the wrong tree, Mike, bless your heart. Aspen is and has been one of the few places people can go and be true to their soul, something the government discourages. You wouldn’t want a bunch of people out there thinking for themselves, they’re much harder to control that way you know. Anything in excess is bad for you, can you blame it on a substance, a religion, a fad, another person? No, it’s up to each individual to discern what is right and dealing with the consequences is part of the learning process. That is why we’re here, we’re all learning. Hopefully, we’ll learn how to live in peace and not judge each other and stop punishing others that have different viewpoints. It’s ridiculous to come to Aspen of all places, and try to shame drugs. You’ll get laughed out of the valley. That’s like going to Salt Lake City and shaming Mormons, or LDS as they call themselves, the Ladder Day Saints.
Imagine if everyone lived their life completely living by the “rules” of society, never swearing, having sex, never late, choosing the perfect career, spouse, family, car, home, school. Always living to appease everyone else, never questioning, never delving, or seeking spiritual awareness. Sounds like the perfect mind controlled robot, doesn’t it. God forbid anyone would want to explore their psyche, then they might wake up and see what is really going on. That is our God given right. Being tortured, mind controlled corralled and prodded goes against our will and our natural way of being. We do not want government to do this, and if they didn’t want us to take drugs, they wouldn’t deal in them. Even some political analysts agree that those countries in the narcotics trade virtually always win wars. So, please dump the redneck, Bush agenda, open your eyes, and get REAL. Yes, it’s too bad when bad things happen to people, and sometimes they use drugs to get there, but, there are other things they can and do use to derail themselves. Blaming drugs is just that same right wing crap they always push to create an inner conflict. Divide, and conquer. Please don’t start with the “Don’t drink and drive, don’t take drugs, Click it, or ticket. Please, this isn’t a children’s program. I mean C’mon, are we supposed to ignore what we perceive as the truth and live by the truth of another. That is like trying to create democracy by killing people. It just doesn’t achieve the goal. It’s pure bullying.
Most every town is a “safe haven” for drugs by your definition. Don’t blame Braudis, he’s been here a lot longer than you have. It’s becoming more and more apparent that all forms of government are capable of looking the other way, for example the HP scandal involving the whole “pretexting” crowd that law enforcement even uses, and of course there have been a few laws broken in the White House lately.
You’re not going to start talking about voo-doo economics, are you? Drugs are bad for you boys and girls, and remember to wash behind your ears. Who are you to pass judgment as to the moral rightness of chemical consumption? I’m so tired of brown nose media filtering everything to fit the government agenda of total control, trying to create vulnerability through fear and doubt, perfect for the snatching of one’s soul. If drugs are so bad, then why did the government introduce them into society? Remember that little mind control program in the 50′s and 60′s, MKULTRA, was it? The LSD and other drugs used to splinter and control the mind are manufactured by major pharmaceutical companies like Eli Lilly, add to that some programming over the FM waves, throw in some flashing lights and hey, what fun! Dance, little sister, dance. What do you suppose all those “communication” towers are for? Can we seriously rule out mind control today given the lineup of controllers that have stolen their way into public office? Think about it. Why is everybody so at odds with each other? Why do all Democrats and Republicans virtually snap at the mere mention of their opposite, pounce on them blaming, and accusing them for every perceived fault in society? We ALL need to pay attention to what is triggering our emotions, and if that rings true to our beliefs, vote, and vote loudly and clearly.
You’re barking up the wrong tree, Mike, bless your heart. Aspen is and has been one of the few places people can go and be true to their soul, something the government discourages. You wouldn’t want a bunch of people out there thinking for themselves, they’re much harder to control that way you know. Anything in excess is bad for you, can you blame it on a substance, a religion, a fad, another person? No, it’s up to each individual to discern what is right and dealing with the consequences is part of the learning process. That is why we’re here, we’re all learning. Hopefully, we’ll learn how to live in peace and not judge each other and stop punishing others that have different viewpoints. It’s ridiculous to come to Aspen of all places, and try to shame drugs. You’ll get laughed out of the valley. That’s like going to Salt Lake City and shaming Mormons, or LDS as they call themselves, the Ladder Day Saints.
Imagine if everyone lived their life completely living by the “rules” of society, never swearing, having sex, never late, choosing the perfect career, spouse, family, car, home, school. Always living to appease everyone else, never questioning, never delving, or seeking spiritual awareness. Sounds like the perfect mind controlled robot, doesn’t it. God forbid anyone would want to explore their psyche, then they might wake up and see what is really going on. That is our God given right. Being tortured, mind controlled corralled and prodded goes against our will and our natural way of being. We do not want government to do this, and if they didn’t want us to take drugs, they wouldn’t deal in them. Even some political analysts agree that those countries in the narcotics trade virtually always win wars. So, please dump the redneck, Bush agenda, open your eyes, and get REAL. Yes, it’s too bad when bad things happen to people, and sometimes they use drugs to get there, but, there are other things they can and do use to derail themselves. Blaming drugs is just that same right wing crap they always push to create an inner conflict. Divide, and conquer. Please don’t start with the “Don’t drink and drive, don’t take drugs, Click it, or ticket. Please, this isn’t a children’s program. I mean C’mon, are we supposed to ignore what we perceive as the truth and live by the truth of another. That is like trying to create democracy by killing people. It just doesn’t achieve the goal. It’s pure bullying.
Most every town is a “safe haven” for drugs by your definition. Don’t blame Braudis, he’s been here a lot longer than you have. It’s becoming more and more apparent that all forms of government are capable of looking the other way, for example the HP scandal involving the whole “pretexting” crowd that law enforcement even uses, and of course there have been a few laws broken in the White House lately.
Welcome, Michael, to the ranks of half-wits who make their bones delivering heat and no light. You and Tony Hershey will have fun in bed together.
I forgot. You got to Aspen at the tail end of the Tony Hershey thing, so you have no idea whereof I speak. Substitute any instigating single-issue weenie—a roster of right-wing talk hosts comes to mind—and you’ll get the clue.
Your safe-haven story is chock full of polemic holes, as are your anti-Braudis rants. I can almost see the flecks of foam on your chin as you gleefully suckle at the warm nipple of Big Attention.
You: “More and more people think I’m right!” So sad.
Polemic Hole #1, since you good enough to ask: I assume you’ll never bother to prove how a Braudis policy brought about the bust of the recidivist at Campo. Randolf Hearst didn’t have to have proof, just a place to stand and scream.
Polemic Hole #2: Please note you’re ranting about a BUST. Like the car wash BUSTS. Isn’t a big fat bust what gives your life meaning these days? Therefore I suppose you could just as easily say the Braudis doctrine is working, not broken, hello?
Welcome, Michael, to the ranks of half-wits who make their bones delivering heat and no light. You and Tony Hershey will have fun in bed together.
I forgot. You got to Aspen at the tail end of the Tony Hershey thing, so you have no idea whereof I speak. Substitute any instigating single-issue weenie—a roster of right-wing talk hosts comes to mind—and you’ll get the clue.
Your safe-haven story is chock full of polemic holes, as are your anti-Braudis rants. I can almost see the flecks of foam on your chin as you gleefully suckle at the warm nipple of Big Attention.
You: “More and more people think I’m right!” So sad.
Polemic Hole #1, since you good enough to ask: I assume you’ll never bother to prove how a Braudis policy brought about the bust of the recidivist at Campo. Randolf Hearst didn’t have to have proof, just a place to stand and scream.
Polemic Hole #2: Please note you’re ranting about a BUST. Like the car wash BUSTS. Isn’t a big fat bust what gives your life meaning these days? Therefore I suppose you could just as easily say the Braudis doctrine is working, not broken, hello?
Great comments. I was wondering if Sheriff Bob’s peeps were ever going to get up off their cans and defend him. It’s good to see you’re still out there.
But really, Pastor Mustard: to let things take such a hateful, personal turn really is the wrong way to win this argument. (I’ve actually noticed, as we’ve gone along on this story, that the defensive chorus dedicated to killing the messenger has died off.) Do you really think someone who is against drugs is a “half-wit? I doubt that very much.
I welcome your comments more than you know–I’m a big fan of your radio show–but I wish we could stick to the issues that count. If you want to defend the policy then go into detail poking those holes you claim to be poking, and I’ll more than happy to explore them here with you and on “Con Games.”
Thanks for listening. Maybe next time a little more “Pastor” with less “Mustard.”
Great comments. I was wondering if Sheriff Bob’s peeps were ever going to get up off their cans and defend him. It’s good to see you’re still out there.
But really, Pastor Mustard: to let things take such a hateful, personal turn really is the wrong way to win this argument. (I’ve actually noticed, as we’ve gone along on this story, that the defensive chorus dedicated to killing the messenger has died off.) Do you really think someone who is against drugs is a “half-wit? I doubt that very much.
I welcome your comments more than you know–I’m a big fan of your radio show–but I wish we could stick to the issues that count. If you want to defend the policy then go into detail poking those holes you claim to be poking, and I’ll more than happy to explore them here with you and on “Con Games.”
Thanks for listening. Maybe next time a little more “Pastor” with less “Mustard.”
I will try to submit this by the points I want to make rather than get carried back into the time machine and blither away in every direction my mind is rambling at the moment.
1. Aspen PD handles situations within the city limits. PSCO handles situations in the county, outside city limits. PSCO assists APD when requested, or when a deputy observes a crime in progress within city limits.
2. The Sheriff is not the highest ranking official in the county. The Coroner is.
3. I am a former cop. I have taken the oath that all cops take. As a cop you must make decisions based on many factors. There is the ‘letter of the law’, and there is the ‘spirit of the law.’ I prefer Bob Braudis’ style of law enforcement because he believes in the spirit of the law. Most people do if you get right down to asking them. A simple example most Aspenites will relate to is parking enforcement. How many times have you found the enforcer at your car just minutes after the time expired, and you pleaded to stop the process of issuing the citation? If you succeeded, that enforcer did not hand you the envelope to slip the cash in. That is ‘spirit of the law’ in action: the right to make a judgment call. If you had to pay up, there you have ‘letter of the law’, which is what Rick Magnuson would like to have for Pitkin County. Strict law enforcement. No room for decision-making.
4. A drug dealer was busted recently, pled out to lesser charges, fined and deported. He returns to the scene of the crime. Why? Money. Aspen = money and the dealer has clientele. Whose fault is it he’s back? Let’s start with DEA and INA before putting any blame on Sheriff Braudis. Next I would find fault with the judge and the DA for pleading out the case. Nowhere on the list of who is to blame should you find Bob Braudis.
5. War on drugs: it has been failing for thirty years. Now let’s try legalizing and controlling the production of drugs. Government can be involved, as they are in everything in our lives, by keeping a watch on things. Big companies can hire Americans and put them back to work. Factories can make drugs and distribute them at a cost cheaper than what we, as taxpayers, put out now for drug busts, public defender’s fees, court costs, housing costs for inmates, extra law enforcement to try and control imported drugs, insurance company rate increases due to crime, life and health coverage to anyone who is injured, killed in the act of drug buys gone bad, etc.
6. Let the farmers have their land back. They can grow crops of marijuana. Willie Nelson won’t need to raise half as much money each year with Farm Aid, and our American farmers all across the mid-section of this country can get out of debt and get back to work.
7. Is any of this a cure? Hell no. The fact is there is no cure. We will always have drugs, addicts, death and crime. The question is, can we at least try a different approach and have a little control over it? We obviously have no control over what takes place in Colombia or Mexico, so why not take them out of the equation?
8. I’m a former cop. I know of which I write. I also worked for PSCO in 1975, when the DEA came into Aspen, made a big drug bust without notifying the APD or the PSCO. It wasn’t appreciated by either department, but DEA felt no obligation to cooperate with local law enforcement. We got over it.
9. Smoking pot does not lead to using other drugs. I speak from experience. More than half of the cops I have worked with have all tried it at some time in their life.
10. I wish Bob Braudis had been sheriff when I worked for the department. I wouldn’t have changed careers and would be proud to say I made the right decision.
I will try to submit this by the points I want to make rather than get carried back into the time machine and blither away in every direction my mind is rambling at the moment.
1. Aspen PD handles situations within the city limits. PSCO handles situations in the county, outside city limits. PSCO assists APD when requested, or when a deputy observes a crime in progress within city limits.
2. The Sheriff is not the highest ranking official in the county. The Coroner is.
3. I am a former cop. I have taken the oath that all cops take. As a cop you must make decisions based on many factors. There is the ‘letter of the law’, and there is the ‘spirit of the law.’ I prefer Bob Braudis’ style of law enforcement because he believes in the spirit of the law. Most people do if you get right down to asking them. A simple example most Aspenites will relate to is parking enforcement. How many times have you found the enforcer at your car just minutes after the time expired, and you pleaded to stop the process of issuing the citation? If you succeeded, that enforcer did not hand you the envelope to slip the cash in. That is ‘spirit of the law’ in action: the right to make a judgment call. If you had to pay up, there you have ‘letter of the law’, which is what Rick Magnuson would like to have for Pitkin County. Strict law enforcement. No room for decision-making.
4. A drug dealer was busted recently, pled out to lesser charges, fined and deported. He returns to the scene of the crime. Why? Money. Aspen = money and the dealer has clientele. Whose fault is it he’s back? Let’s start with DEA and INA before putting any blame on Sheriff Braudis. Next I would find fault with the judge and the DA for pleading out the case. Nowhere on the list of who is to blame should you find Bob Braudis.
5. War on drugs: it has been failing for thirty years. Now let’s try legalizing and controlling the production of drugs. Government can be involved, as they are in everything in our lives, by keeping a watch on things. Big companies can hire Americans and put them back to work. Factories can make drugs and distribute them at a cost cheaper than what we, as taxpayers, put out now for drug busts, public defender’s fees, court costs, housing costs for inmates, extra law enforcement to try and control imported drugs, insurance company rate increases due to crime, life and health coverage to anyone who is injured, killed in the act of drug buys gone bad, etc.
6. Let the farmers have their land back. They can grow crops of marijuana. Willie Nelson won’t need to raise half as much money each year with Farm Aid, and our American farmers all across the mid-section of this country can get out of debt and get back to work.
7. Is any of this a cure? Hell no. The fact is there is no cure. We will always have drugs, addicts, death and crime. The question is, can we at least try a different approach and have a little control over it? We obviously have no control over what takes place in Colombia or Mexico, so why not take them out of the equation?
8. I’m a former cop. I know of which I write. I also worked for PSCO in 1975, when the DEA came into Aspen, made a big drug bust without notifying the APD or the PSCO. It wasn’t appreciated by either department, but DEA felt no obligation to cooperate with local law enforcement. We got over it.
9. Smoking pot does not lead to using other drugs. I speak from experience. More than half of the cops I have worked with have all tried it at some time in their life.
10. I wish Bob Braudis had been sheriff when I worked for the department. I wouldn’t have changed careers and would be proud to say I made the right decision.
There are books about using Talk Judo to always win: redirect, dumb it down, overwhelm, lower your standards. For talk show hosts the cutoff switch allows Hannity, O’Reilly, etc., to get the last word. Then they finish off the guy they already hung up on like this: recite the mantra, belittle the caller. To these guys getting the last word equates to a win. Ecch.
Today you asked, “What other laws should not be enforced?” You then went on about, what was it? Baby stabbing or something. Please. It was not about you doing your part in an argument. It was about dumbing the conversation to a level no one would enjoinder. Poof, you “win.”
I think not. If it was a wrestling match you would have lost a point for an illegal takedown. Don’t call foul on me if your tactics compare you favorably to Limbaugh, etc.
You seem too emotionally invested to work through this godforsaken low denominator debate on drugs. You’re too dug in. You’re going after heat not light.
Dude, there is never closure on the drug enforcement issue except in the victory fantasies of Puritan control freaks. There’s no integrity in that whispering warrior camp. Imagine a backyard barbecue with your triumphalist supporters. No fun.
Braudis has been right for a long time. Proportion is key. He’s way smart enough to revisit the debate and adapt. You, on the other hand dally with absolutism which, A) will never find resolution, and, B) is ultimately impractical. Not to mention it has the icky feel of a witch hunt.
But it sure generates calls.
Are those poppies in the blogosphere inset? Poppies, for God sake?
There are books about using Talk Judo to always win: redirect, dumb it down, overwhelm, lower your standards. For talk show hosts the cutoff switch allows Hannity, O’Reilly, etc., to get the last word. Then they finish off the guy they already hung up on like this: recite the mantra, belittle the caller. To these guys getting the last word equates to a win. Ecch.
Today you asked, “What other laws should not be enforced?” You then went on about, what was it? Baby stabbing or something. Please. It was not about you doing your part in an argument. It was about dumbing the conversation to a level no one would enjoinder. Poof, you “win.”
I think not. If it was a wrestling match you would have lost a point for an illegal takedown. Don’t call foul on me if your tactics compare you favorably to Limbaugh, etc.
You seem too emotionally invested to work through this godforsaken low denominator debate on drugs. You’re too dug in. You’re going after heat not light.
Dude, there is never closure on the drug enforcement issue except in the victory fantasies of Puritan control freaks. There’s no integrity in that whispering warrior camp. Imagine a backyard barbecue with your triumphalist supporters. No fun.
Braudis has been right for a long time. Proportion is key. He’s way smart enough to revisit the debate and adapt. You, on the other hand dally with absolutism which, A) will never find resolution, and, B) is ultimately impractical. Not to mention it has the icky feel of a witch hunt.
But it sure generates calls.
Are those poppies in the blogosphere inset? Poppies, for God sake?
I’m confused. “Aspen Post has learned” . . .? You mean you learned it from the papers, right? Because this story has already appeared in both local papers. But good for you for reading. After all, reading IS fundamental.
By the way, Michael, Campo is APD jurisdiction. The Sheriff’s office would only be called in for back-up. Sounds like you need to talk to Rick and his cronies at the Aspen Police Department about enforcing the drug laws in the city. While you’re at it, you might want to ask them for a map of their coverage area – you’re getting it confused quite frequently. Didn’t take a geography class at Harvard, huh? Big mistake.
By the way, Michael, how’s your sheriff over in Eagle County? He must be fine since you are uncharacteristically mute about what’s happening in your own backyard. You know, the place where you are actually allowed to vote.
I’m confused. “Aspen Post has learned” . . .? You mean you learned it from the papers, right? Because this story has already appeared in both local papers. But good for you for reading. After all, reading IS fundamental.
By the way, Michael, Campo is APD jurisdiction. The Sheriff’s office would only be called in for back-up. Sounds like you need to talk to Rick and his cronies at the Aspen Police Department about enforcing the drug laws in the city. While you’re at it, you might want to ask them for a map of their coverage area – you’re getting it confused quite frequently. Didn’t take a geography class at Harvard, huh? Big mistake.
By the way, Michael, how’s your sheriff over in Eagle County? He must be fine since you are uncharacteristically mute about what’s happening in your own backyard. You know, the place where you are actually allowed to vote.
The conclusion of the original post states: “Drug dealers are safe in Pitkin County thanks to the enlightened policies of Sheriff Braudis.” Chicken or egg? I think it could be argued that if the enlightened policies of Sheriff Braudis (treating drugs as a health problem) were enacted across all jurisdictions, drug dealers would not exist in Pitkin County.
I offer as a contrary conclusion that this alleged drug dealer, Sandoval, has returned to Pitkin County to deal drugs because it is a lucrative economic venture created by the failed drug war. If the economic incentive to engage in such activities did not exist, it is entirely probable that Sandoval would not be here. It can also be argued that such a result partially mitigates the effects of two hot-button topics: drugs and immigration.
This argument is theoretical in nature, in that Braudis has authority over one county that is surrounded by other jurisdictions, and in fact, a nation, that fully subscribes to the misguided tenets of the war on drugs. Thus, we will likely never know whether Braudis is truly enlightened or just covering up his own personal lifestyle.
I appreciate the fact that this dialogue was initiated by Mr. Conniff–it has made me think about the issues in a meaningful way and exposed readers and listeners to different perspectives. However, it is apparent that his objectivity with regard to this particular subject matter is tragically compromised, and may indeed limit the usefulness of the discussion. I don’t mean to bash you, Michael, but the bee in your briefs on this topic seems to be getting in the way.
David Bach for guest topic moderator! Vote early and often!
The conclusion of the original post states: “Drug dealers are safe in Pitkin County thanks to the enlightened policies of Sheriff Braudis.” Chicken or egg? I think it could be argued that if the enlightened policies of Sheriff Braudis (treating drugs as a health problem) were enacted across all jurisdictions, drug dealers would not exist in Pitkin County.
I offer as a contrary conclusion that this alleged drug dealer, Sandoval, has returned to Pitkin County to deal drugs because it is a lucrative economic venture created by the failed drug war. If the economic incentive to engage in such activities did not exist, it is entirely probable that Sandoval would not be here. It can also be argued that such a result partially mitigates the effects of two hot-button topics: drugs and immigration.
This argument is theoretical in nature, in that Braudis has authority over one county that is surrounded by other jurisdictions, and in fact, a nation, that fully subscribes to the misguided tenets of the war on drugs. Thus, we will likely never know whether Braudis is truly enlightened or just covering up his own personal lifestyle.
I appreciate the fact that this dialogue was initiated by Mr. Conniff–it has made me think about the issues in a meaningful way and exposed readers and listeners to different perspectives. However, it is apparent that his objectivity with regard to this particular subject matter is tragically compromised, and may indeed limit the usefulness of the discussion. I don’t mean to bash you, Michael, but the bee in your briefs on this topic seems to be getting in the way.
David Bach for guest topic moderator! Vote early and often!
Many people jumping in…I like that. OK, my turn.
First, I have to disregard anything “Link” says because of his “government conspiracy/they are reading our minds” theories. Give me a break!
Kit on the other hand had some very interesting points that I would like to address.
First – “Aspen PD handles situations within the city limits. PSCO handles situations in the county, outside city limits. PSCO assists APD when requested, or when a deputy observes a crime in progress within city limits.” I find this amazing, though not untrue. But if it is the case, and the Sheriff doesn’t have anything to do with in city stuff, why was the Sheriff so outraged about the Dec. 2nd raids when it wasn’t even in his purview of duties?
Second – “The Sheriff is not the highest ranking official in the county. The Coroner is.” Funny that the Sheriff got his way over the Coroner doing his job when it came to doing an autopsy on Hunter. But that is a different story.
Third – Spirit of the law is defined as “the idea or ideas that the people who made the law wanted to have an effect.” You may have been a cop, but you’re confusing the roles of those who make the laws and those who enforce the laws. Which may lead to your misunderstanding of exactly what today’s police face when enforcing the laws. (Or as in Pitkin, choose not to enforce)
Forth – Here you correctly identify the dealer felt comfortable in Pitkin, knew his cliental, and was trying to continue to reap profits from selling narcotics. You however, then went off on a tangent of blame from everyone from the DA to the DEA and relieve the Sheriff, who can ultimately direct the way laws are enforced in his county, from any responsibility. Amazing how people can ignore the obvious to justify their perspectives.
Fifth – “Factories can make drugs and distribute them at a cost cheaper than what we, as taxpayers, put out now for drug busts, public defender’s fees, court costs, housing costs for inmates, extra law enforcement to try and control imported drugs, insurance company rate increases due to crime, life and health coverage to anyone who is injured, killed in the act of drug buys gone bad, etc.” If you really think that this would work, then you one, while a cop never understood human behavior; two, know nothing about the tort system of liability in this country; and three, have no understanding of the black market, how it operates and what drives it. To address this ridicules assertion; I refer you to my comment under “Why not legalize all drugs” in the Aspenpost.net.
Sixth – “Let the farmers have their land back. They can grow crops of marijuana.” Won’t work, Mexico, Colombia, Canada, and tons of other places can grow it cheaper and then what are the farmers going to do? Partition congress to put tariffs on marijuana to boost the price so they can make a profit. Sorry, this once again creates a market for the stuff and underscores your flawed though well meaning idea.
Seventh – “We will always have drugs, addicts, death and crime. The question is, can we at least try a different approach and have a little control over it?” Who would you like to control it? And what exactly? The drugs? The criminals? Addicts? Simplistic and unrealistic.
Eighth – No, I don’t think anyone ever has gotten over it; otherwise it wouldn’t be bought up each time something happens in this county. And if they “got over” what the DEA did, how come the Sheriff can’t “get over” what happened last December when the Aspen PD, doing an operation in their own town, of which they have jurisdiction? Double standards running amuck from what I am seeing.
Ninth – “Smoking pot does not lead to using other drugs.” Once again I question what kind of a cop you were to make this statement. But don’t ask any cop; ask any doctor that works emergency rooms. Ask any user of meth or coke or heroin what was the first drug they tried and ten to one it was marijuana. A more accurate statement would be smoking pot MAY not lead to using other drugs, but the statistics and the human tragic toll tell a different story.
Lastly, I can understand why you would have liked to work for Braudis. He doesn’t require you to enforce any laws, you get a take home car, if you beat up a civilian in a bar he comes to your defense, heck, what’s not to like. I wish my boss was like that.
Many people jumping in…I like that. OK, my turn.
First, I have to disregard anything “Link” says because of his “government conspiracy/they are reading our minds” theories. Give me a break!
Kit on the other hand had some very interesting points that I would like to address.
First – “Aspen PD handles situations within the city limits. PSCO handles situations in the county, outside city limits. PSCO assists APD when requested, or when a deputy observes a crime in progress within city limits.” I find this amazing, though not untrue. But if it is the case, and the Sheriff doesn’t have anything to do with in city stuff, why was the Sheriff so outraged about the Dec. 2nd raids when it wasn’t even in his purview of duties?
Second – “The Sheriff is not the highest ranking official in the county. The Coroner is.” Funny that the Sheriff got his way over the Coroner doing his job when it came to doing an autopsy on Hunter. But that is a different story.
Third – Spirit of the law is defined as “the idea or ideas that the people who made the law wanted to have an effect.” You may have been a cop, but you’re confusing the roles of those who make the laws and those who enforce the laws. Which may lead to your misunderstanding of exactly what today’s police face when enforcing the laws. (Or as in Pitkin, choose not to enforce)
Forth – Here you correctly identify the dealer felt comfortable in Pitkin, knew his cliental, and was trying to continue to reap profits from selling narcotics. You however, then went off on a tangent of blame from everyone from the DA to the DEA and relieve the Sheriff, who can ultimately direct the way laws are enforced in his county, from any responsibility. Amazing how people can ignore the obvious to justify their perspectives.
Fifth – “Factories can make drugs and distribute them at a cost cheaper than what we, as taxpayers, put out now for drug busts, public defender’s fees, court costs, housing costs for inmates, extra law enforcement to try and control imported drugs, insurance company rate increases due to crime, life and health coverage to anyone who is injured, killed in the act of drug buys gone bad, etc.” If you really think that this would work, then you one, while a cop never understood human behavior; two, know nothing about the tort system of liability in this country; and three, have no understanding of the black market, how it operates and what drives it. To address this ridicules assertion; I refer you to my comment under “Why not legalize all drugs” in the Aspenpost.net.
Sixth – “Let the farmers have their land back. They can grow crops of marijuana.” Won’t work, Mexico, Colombia, Canada, and tons of other places can grow it cheaper and then what are the farmers going to do? Partition congress to put tariffs on marijuana to boost the price so they can make a profit. Sorry, this once again creates a market for the stuff and underscores your flawed though well meaning idea.
Seventh – “We will always have drugs, addicts, death and crime. The question is, can we at least try a different approach and have a little control over it?” Who would you like to control it? And what exactly? The drugs? The criminals? Addicts? Simplistic and unrealistic.
Eighth – No, I don’t think anyone ever has gotten over it; otherwise it wouldn’t be bought up each time something happens in this county. And if they “got over” what the DEA did, how come the Sheriff can’t “get over” what happened last December when the Aspen PD, doing an operation in their own town, of which they have jurisdiction? Double standards running amuck from what I am seeing.
Ninth – “Smoking pot does not lead to using other drugs.” Once again I question what kind of a cop you were to make this statement. But don’t ask any cop; ask any doctor that works emergency rooms. Ask any user of meth or coke or heroin what was the first drug they tried and ten to one it was marijuana. A more accurate statement would be smoking pot MAY not lead to using other drugs, but the statistics and the human tragic toll tell a different story.
Lastly, I can understand why you would have liked to work for Braudis. He doesn’t require you to enforce any laws, you get a take home car, if you beat up a civilian in a bar he comes to your defense, heck, what’s not to like. I wish my boss was like that.
Very dissapointing Michael. Yor enthusiastic dislike of Braudis has been quite unfortunate in its effect on you.
You have repeatedly misrepresented the prevailing view of those who oppose you on this point. The bulk of people who oppose you do not wish to “legalize everything”. They simply think that the costs of criminalization & enforcement are higher than the cost of misuse – of the lighter recreational drugs. Further, they believe that the criminalization has failed in its stated goal.
Cost of criminalization versus cost of abuse; stated goals versus actual outcomes. Simple conceptual differences you refuse to acknowledge or address.
Your insistence on equating pot with heroin is disingenuous at best. You are sounding increasingly like a neocon sophist in your arguments and increasingly behaving like a tyranical radio host on this issue.
Shame; I had higher hopes.
By the way; the Sherif has no role in City Limits enforcement unless invited. However, inter-department communcation is simpy good form on the part of departments keeping each other informed, so they don’t end up shooting each other. The DEA and APD decision to shut out the PCSD is reckless politically driven gamesmanship. Leanr the roles before bitching please.
Finally, this is a small town: who are those users? You seem so worried about the message for the children, does it occur to you that the users are their very own parents? Every night they line up with a tall scotch and maybe a toot for the nose, while sending litle johnny out with a fast car and little supervision. These are the people who reelect and reelect Braudis. Put the responsibility where it belongs.
Very dissapointing Michael. Yor enthusiastic dislike of Braudis has been quite unfortunate in its effect on you.
You have repeatedly misrepresented the prevailing view of those who oppose you on this point. The bulk of people who oppose you do not wish to “legalize everything”. They simply think that the costs of criminalization & enforcement are higher than the cost of misuse – of the lighter recreational drugs. Further, they believe that the criminalization has failed in its stated goal.
Cost of criminalization versus cost of abuse; stated goals versus actual outcomes. Simple conceptual differences you refuse to acknowledge or address.
Your insistence on equating pot with heroin is disingenuous at best. You are sounding increasingly like a neocon sophist in your arguments and increasingly behaving like a tyranical radio host on this issue.
Shame; I had higher hopes.
By the way; the Sherif has no role in City Limits enforcement unless invited. However, inter-department communcation is simpy good form on the part of departments keeping each other informed, so they don’t end up shooting each other. The DEA and APD decision to shut out the PCSD is reckless politically driven gamesmanship. Leanr the roles before bitching please.
Finally, this is a small town: who are those users? You seem so worried about the message for the children, does it occur to you that the users are their very own parents? Every night they line up with a tall scotch and maybe a toot for the nose, while sending litle johnny out with a fast car and little supervision. These are the people who reelect and reelect Braudis. Put the responsibility where it belongs.
Sophist, Chief Hosa?
Really?
Most people think I’m just a wise guy.
Shamefully yours, Con Man!
Sophist, Chief Hosa?
Really?
Most people think I’m just a wise guy.
Shamefully yours, Con Man!
Regardless, you all sound like the folks from the city who move to the serene bucolic country estate and then immediately set about complaining about their neighbor the dairy farmer.
There is a great county next door where the sheriff
is all ra ra just like you folks, maybe you should go join him.
Beside you are starting to sound a lot like Bill o Reilly.
Regardless, you all sound like the folks from the city who move to the serene bucolic country estate and then immediately set about complaining about their neighbor the dairy farmer.
There is a great county next door where the sheriff
is all ra ra just like you folks, maybe you should go join him.
Beside you are starting to sound a lot like Bill o Reilly.
Yes, Michael, I’m afraid so. This campaign of yours to oust Braudis has overtaken your good judgement. Regardless of your pov on the question, you have turned it into a bit of a swift boating exersize. That is a shame.
Yes, Michael, I’m afraid so. This campaign of yours to oust Braudis has overtaken your good judgement. Regardless of your pov on the question, you have turned it into a bit of a swift boating exersize. That is a shame.
[This campaign of yours to oust Braudis has overtaken your good judgement.]
Has it really? I’ve listened quietly to this debate because I have no dog in this hunt (no vote in Pitkin County). Michael’s main point is that, no matter how you stack it, the effects of drug use extend far beyond the user. More than a few of us can attest to the truth of this thinking.
That said, does this fact constitute a toilet seat around Braudis’ neck? Not as I see it. While I do not agree with Braudis’ opinion about drug law enforcement, I think the man has served Pitkin County in ways most of us will never understand.
Michael’s made Bob’s recent visit to a rehab program a wedge issue. There’s a foul in this, to be sure. I don’t think thoughtful voters will call this foul on Braudis…
[This campaign of yours to oust Braudis has overtaken your good judgement.]
Has it really? I’ve listened quietly to this debate because I have no dog in this hunt (no vote in Pitkin County). Michael’s main point is that, no matter how you stack it, the effects of drug use extend far beyond the user. More than a few of us can attest to the truth of this thinking.
That said, does this fact constitute a toilet seat around Braudis’ neck? Not as I see it. While I do not agree with Braudis’ opinion about drug law enforcement, I think the man has served Pitkin County in ways most of us will never understand.
Michael’s made Bob’s recent visit to a rehab program a wedge issue. There’s a foul in this, to be sure. I don’t think thoughtful voters will call this foul on Braudis…
It is always telling when the truth is hitting close to home as those bearing the message are attacked.
I would not call the rehab of Braudis a “wedge” issue, I think from what I have read that Michael is trying to point out the hypocrisy of the whole issue. Braudis was not and has yet to be honest about going to rehab. I do not think anyone would hold it against him for taking a step in gaining control of a drug and alcohol addiction, and I applaud him in that matter, however, by telling the masses that he went for a wellness cleansing…to expect people to believe that, he has to think that the people of Pitkin County are a bunch of morons. And since he has been around so long, he may be right.
It is always telling when the truth is hitting close to home as those bearing the message are attacked.
I would not call the rehab of Braudis a “wedge” issue, I think from what I have read that Michael is trying to point out the hypocrisy of the whole issue. Braudis was not and has yet to be honest about going to rehab. I do not think anyone would hold it against him for taking a step in gaining control of a drug and alcohol addiction, and I applaud him in that matter, however, by telling the masses that he went for a wellness cleansing…to expect people to believe that, he has to think that the people of Pitkin County are a bunch of morons. And since he has been around so long, he may be right.
Yes, I’ve heard Michael use the “hypocracy” argument too. The ONLY basis for thinking Braudis’ rehab stint fair game is that he is that he holds public office.
If Braudis is old, tired, and holds funky views on drug enforcement, that’s one thing. But his personal life is another… Decency draws that line.
Remember that Pitkin County once ran a cartoon salamander for public office. Against Chucky Leidner. Google it. The larger context is telling on this discussion.
Yes, I’ve heard Michael use the “hypocracy” argument too. The ONLY basis for thinking Braudis’ rehab stint fair game is that he is that he holds public office.
If Braudis is old, tired, and holds funky views on drug enforcement, that’s one thing. But his personal life is another… Decency draws that line.
Remember that Pitkin County once ran a cartoon salamander for public office. Against Chucky Leidner. Google it. The larger context is telling on this discussion.
Wait a minute. Isn’t it always when the truth is hitting close to home that those being criticized start calling it an attack? Pretty truthy, hey?
Wait a minute. Isn’t it always when the truth is hitting close to home that those being criticized start calling it an attack? Pretty truthy, hey?
Mitch. There are good arguments to be had across the spectrum about the social impacts of drug use and of crimialization – and the tradeoffs of consequences of public policy.
However, it is becoming increasingly evident that perhaps Mr Coniff is more interested in booting Braudis than in facilitating that debate. The key indication comes from how fairly he characteries the opposing views. Or not.
Also of note (as Pastor M) points out, is the hysterical hyperbole employed in pursuit of the point – Mr. Coniff behaves as if we have an out of control crack baby epidemic in this community as a result of permissiveness; which we clearly do not. We have some line cooks doing coke and some rich folks doing coke, a bunch of folks smoking pot, and very little else in the way pf problems on any widespread scale, and nearly all of them have a greater problem with booze. We certainly do not have the meth problems that invade more poor areas, despite their enthusiastic law enforcement.
Mitch. There are good arguments to be had across the spectrum about the social impacts of drug use and of crimialization – and the tradeoffs of consequences of public policy.
However, it is becoming increasingly evident that perhaps Mr Coniff is more interested in booting Braudis than in facilitating that debate. The key indication comes from how fairly he characteries the opposing views. Or not.
Also of note (as Pastor M) points out, is the hysterical hyperbole employed in pursuit of the point – Mr. Coniff behaves as if we have an out of control crack baby epidemic in this community as a result of permissiveness; which we clearly do not. We have some line cooks doing coke and some rich folks doing coke, a bunch of folks smoking pot, and very little else in the way pf problems on any widespread scale, and nearly all of them have a greater problem with booze. We certainly do not have the meth problems that invade more poor areas, despite their enthusiastic law enforcement.
Nice debate/discussion here.
Pastor Mustard, you are a huge hypocrite.
Keep at it Michael!
Nice debate/discussion here.
Pastor Mustard, you are a huge hypocrite.
Keep at it Michael!
Michael,
I understand completely your first reaction to the whole mind programming issue as not at all plausible. It’s not something we hear a lot about, even though it’s well researched and widely used in education. In the civilized world we expect things of this nature to be used for the good of humanity, as in the case of education. However, this may not always be the case. Consider the current administrations polices and the revoking of our civil rights, clearly they’re seeking control. Never in our life times have we seen our rights unprotected or has a president gone to war without the approval from congress. They bypassed the electoral process by cheating the voters out of their votes to get in office, taken over the media, and blackmailed or intimidated other leaders to get their compliance to go to war. George HW was director of the CIA in the 70′s, most definitely a period documented to have had these mind control operations that were later disbanded by public outcry, we have at least 12 secret agencies, and legally your landlord can be paid for surveillance of it’s tenants. Do you really think at this point mind programming is out of the question? I have seen it first hand, unfortunately.
Why do you think most of society seems to be split into groups. It didn’t used to be that way. People used to be civil for the most part. We did not fall into political persona’s not unlike those of Newt Gingrich vs. women rights groups as we’re seeing today, people are at each others throats, yelling, insulting each other apparently unable to discuss things calmly. Why? Clearly, we’re being manipulated.
Whenever we’re quick to anger we’re facing our blind spots, something is triggering a reaction within that needs to be explored. Where are these strong feelings coming from? Are they really how we feel. If so, why can’t we discuss them in a relaxed and rational manner? Intelligent, outgoing people are the easiest to manipulate. Think about all those commercials you see on TV where people are being controlled by others with mobile phones or other electronic nonsense. Where do you think all that is coming from? Think about it, you’re a talk show host wouldn’t it be interesting if you could be controlled?
2.About the issue of growing marijuana in the US, this is a viable cash crop not only for medicinal purposes, but hemp is a great alternative to cotton and overall is easily renewable source of fiber. Not at all a bad idea giving farmers back their land for this. Marijuana is the second largest cash crop in ten states, after corn in the US!
3. Other countries have legalized drugs and they’re dispensed through pharmacies. In the Netherlands, programs are available for addicts to quit , others continue drug use on a medical basis. It can and does work depending on the supportive attitude surrounding the issue, something America seems to be losing with our war on drugs.
It’s time we started facing the reality that militaristic action is not the answer. With this kind of thinking somebody is always the bad guy, when in reality there is no bad guy, only fear and inappropriate response to perceived threats. In which case we all lose, there is no sense in fighting and arguing over everything, it ends up costing billions of dollars and innocent people end up dying while we all struggle through conflict.
Michael,
I understand completely your first reaction to the whole mind programming issue as not at all plausible. It’s not something we hear a lot about, even though it’s well researched and widely used in education. In the civilized world we expect things of this nature to be used for the good of humanity, as in the case of education. However, this may not always be the case. Consider the current administrations polices and the revoking of our civil rights, clearly they’re seeking control. Never in our life times have we seen our rights unprotected or has a president gone to war without the approval from congress. They bypassed the electoral process by cheating the voters out of their votes to get in office, taken over the media, and blackmailed or intimidated other leaders to get their compliance to go to war. George HW was director of the CIA in the 70′s, most definitely a period documented to have had these mind control operations that were later disbanded by public outcry, we have at least 12 secret agencies, and legally your landlord can be paid for surveillance of it’s tenants. Do you really think at this point mind programming is out of the question? I have seen it first hand, unfortunately.
Why do you think most of society seems to be split into groups. It didn’t used to be that way. People used to be civil for the most part. We did not fall into political persona’s not unlike those of Newt Gingrich vs. women rights groups as we’re seeing today, people are at each others throats, yelling, insulting each other apparently unable to discuss things calmly. Why? Clearly, we’re being manipulated.
Whenever we’re quick to anger we’re facing our blind spots, something is triggering a reaction within that needs to be explored. Where are these strong feelings coming from? Are they really how we feel. If so, why can’t we discuss them in a relaxed and rational manner? Intelligent, outgoing people are the easiest to manipulate. Think about all those commercials you see on TV where people are being controlled by others with mobile phones or other electronic nonsense. Where do you think all that is coming from? Think about it, you’re a talk show host wouldn’t it be interesting if you could be controlled?
2.About the issue of growing marijuana in the US, this is a viable cash crop not only for medicinal purposes, but hemp is a great alternative to cotton and overall is easily renewable source of fiber. Not at all a bad idea giving farmers back their land for this. Marijuana is the second largest cash crop in ten states, after corn in the US!
3. Other countries have legalized drugs and they’re dispensed through pharmacies. In the Netherlands, programs are available for addicts to quit , others continue drug use on a medical basis. It can and does work depending on the supportive attitude surrounding the issue, something America seems to be losing with our war on drugs.
It’s time we started facing the reality that militaristic action is not the answer. With this kind of thinking somebody is always the bad guy, when in reality there is no bad guy, only fear and inappropriate response to perceived threats. In which case we all lose, there is no sense in fighting and arguing over everything, it ends up costing billions of dollars and innocent people end up dying while we all struggle through conflict.
Hey Link,
I find it interesting that you call on others to face reality after that post. WOW. I especially like your one statement; “Do you really think at this point mind programming is out of the question? I have seen it first hand, unfortunately.”
Dude, you have to tell us more about your first hand experiences. This is much better then all this legal/illegal drug stuff.
Hey Link,
I find it interesting that you call on others to face reality after that post. WOW. I especially like your one statement; “Do you really think at this point mind programming is out of the question? I have seen it first hand, unfortunately.”
Dude, you have to tell us more about your first hand experiences. This is much better then all this legal/illegal drug stuff.
[WOW]
English poet and playwright Robert Browning (d. 1889) is not only the author of one of the longest narrative poems in English (“The Ring and the Book”), he is also said by some to have attained an astonishingly broad vocabulary.
Were Browning alive today to read Aspen Post and happen upon link2′s comment above, I think Browning, like alpha6, may have taken off his spectacles, rubbed his eyes, and whispered the simple, single syllable, “WOW.”
Can we agree that a person who comments on a blog assumes a responsibility to be constructive? (Yes, I’ve seen plenty of evidence to the contrary, yet this is a standard I prefer to heed).
On Aspen Post, I think Michael applies a liberal definition of what constitutes constructive commentary, and that’s a good thing. That means link2′s comment not only has a place at the table, but his/her comment constitutes a salient point in this PitCo Sherriff’s race debate, no matter how unrelated the thread and his/her comment may be…
[WOW]
English poet and playwright Robert Browning (d. 1889) is not only the author of one of the longest narrative poems in English (“The Ring and the Book”), he is also said by some to have attained an astonishingly broad vocabulary.
Were Browning alive today to read Aspen Post and happen upon link2′s comment above, I think Browning, like alpha6, may have taken off his spectacles, rubbed his eyes, and whispered the simple, single syllable, “WOW.”
Can we agree that a person who comments on a blog assumes a responsibility to be constructive? (Yes, I’ve seen plenty of evidence to the contrary, yet this is a standard I prefer to heed).
On Aspen Post, I think Michael applies a liberal definition of what constitutes constructive commentary, and that’s a good thing. That means link2′s comment not only has a place at the table, but his/her comment constitutes a salient point in this PitCo Sherriff’s race debate, no matter how unrelated the thread and his/her comment may be…
Good Lord.
Why not just open up Sardy Field to unfettered Drug Trafficking? That is what the so called “locals” want. After all, those who seek out local status will never become one because they have no idea what one actually is.
Go back up to Red Mountain or Woody Creek and snort your blow. Your pathetic tirade is all too played out. “Bob is our Sheriff, Bob is our leader.” What a pathetic mantra? You know, the irony of the situation is that back when Kienast ran for Sheriff, he ran against a “good ole boys club.” He was victorious and proceeded to quickly replace one old good ole boys club with another. The upper management of the PCSO is a joke. When was the last time one of Bob’s upper echelon got a DUI? Or an arrest for that matter? To some of them, Law Enforcement is nothing more than a Customer Service Rep. You people (yes, I said you people) who continue to support Bob have no other desire than to be able to use your drugs in peace. Let’s call a spade a spade. Hunter was not an icon, Bob has never and will never be (no matter how much you wish he was) King. Get over it, get a job and expect more. The only people still in this arguement are people like Jimmy Ibbotson who refuse to wake up from the coke/pot infused haze. I pity all of you. Welcome to the real world. It might suck, it might be painful, but as soon as you give up your coke addictions, you will realize that there is more to life than Bob and his pathetic wannabe family man propaganda politicial ads. Vote change, Vote Sobriety, Vote Magnuson. After all, Hunter showed us what Substance Abuse eventually brings.
Good Lord.
Why not just open up Sardy Field to unfettered Drug Trafficking? That is what the so called “locals” want. After all, those who seek out local status will never become one because they have no idea what one actually is.
Go back up to Red Mountain or Woody Creek and snort your blow. Your pathetic tirade is all too played out. “Bob is our Sheriff, Bob is our leader.” What a pathetic mantra? You know, the irony of the situation is that back when Kienast ran for Sheriff, he ran against a “good ole boys club.” He was victorious and proceeded to quickly replace one old good ole boys club with another. The upper management of the PCSO is a joke. When was the last time one of Bob’s upper echelon got a DUI? Or an arrest for that matter? To some of them, Law Enforcement is nothing more than a Customer Service Rep. You people (yes, I said you people) who continue to support Bob have no other desire than to be able to use your drugs in peace. Let’s call a spade a spade. Hunter was not an icon, Bob has never and will never be (no matter how much you wish he was) King. Get over it, get a job and expect more. The only people still in this arguement are people like Jimmy Ibbotson who refuse to wake up from the coke/pot infused haze. I pity all of you. Welcome to the real world. It might suck, it might be painful, but as soon as you give up your coke addictions, you will realize that there is more to life than Bob and his pathetic wannabe family man propaganda politicial ads. Vote change, Vote Sobriety, Vote Magnuson. After all, Hunter showed us what Substance Abuse eventually brings.
There is more to law enforcement than busting pot smokers. The Sheriff’s office is responsible for providing security to visiting officials and events like X games, overseeing rescues and fire fighting on public lands, and dealing with other crimes besides drugs. Braudis’ philosophy really shines in events like his officer’s dealings with armed standoffs and other crazies that do occur from time to time – which have shown a great deal of professionalism and restraint.
This whole kerfuffle about drugs overlooks the fact that the job is in fact highly technical and demanding in many realms. Not a great place to lodge a protest vote and hire an unqualified crank.
Besides, I will always endorse Braudis’ refusal to do entrapment and snitch work required by a militarized police state in its so caled “war” on its own people. All good americans should do the same.
There is more to law enforcement than busting pot smokers. The Sheriff’s office is responsible for providing security to visiting officials and events like X games, overseeing rescues and fire fighting on public lands, and dealing with other crimes besides drugs. Braudis’ philosophy really shines in events like his officer’s dealings with armed standoffs and other crazies that do occur from time to time – which have shown a great deal of professionalism and restraint.
This whole kerfuffle about drugs overlooks the fact that the job is in fact highly technical and demanding in many realms. Not a great place to lodge a protest vote and hire an unqualified crank.
Besides, I will always endorse Braudis’ refusal to do entrapment and snitch work required by a militarized police state in its so caled “war” on its own people. All good americans should do the same.
Kerfuffle?
I respect you greatly chief, but kerfuffle me no kerfuffle. People are getting hurt. Families are being ruined. People are dying.
Kerfuffle?
Listen Thursday to Magnuson on “Con Games.”
Thanks, Michael!
Kerfuffle?
I respect you greatly chief, but kerfuffle me no kerfuffle. People are getting hurt. Families are being ruined. People are dying.
Kerfuffle?
Listen Thursday to Magnuson on “Con Games.”
Thanks, Michael!
What follows is a true story.
A few years back a sheriff in southern Colorado laid an elaborate drug interdiction trap prior to The Telluride Bluegrass Festival. I know details because depositions were taken at the Festival.
After watching how the Greeks held off the Persians at Thermopylae on the History Channel I realized the cops used a technically updated blueprint on CO HWY 145.
Deep in a long canyon big signs were placed roadside, “Drug Interdiction Stop Ahead, 1 Mile.” Camouflaged spotters on the cliffs watched for any car that turned around, slowed down, or pulled off for the baggie toss. Probable cause, you see. They radioed chasers hidden roadside. These guys were on motorcycles, clad in black leather with smoked glass face shields. When alleged perps were stopped, they had to hit the dirt SWAT-style and sniff the muzzle of large caliber weapons while the scary motorcycle guys screamed obscenities and backup arrived. We’re talking about families. Entire hippie buses were tossed, then abruptly abandoned when the enforcers got a new call.
You may have read about it.
This is the kind of triumphant victory fantasy that plays out in the Puritan/Absolutist mind. I’m referring to those of you who are calling for very strict drug enforcement, however righteous your motivation.
In my experience there are exactly two kinds of cops, the Busters and the Helpers. You probably have met them both.
My first week in Aspen (late ’70s), an Aspen policeman caught me lighting up, right downtown. He appeared at my van window and my asshole clenched. Then he said, “Put that away. Do you want to get busted? I don’t care what you’ve heard about this town, you can’t fire up on the street.”
Verbatim. This peace officer was a Mensch. He assumed I had a life and that life would not be improved by jail time. Message received.
How do you want your peace officers? Bust-thirsty Puritanical overlord bullies or thoughtful professionals with a developed sense of proportion? The former gets adrenaline from war fantasies, the latter gets endorphin by putting peace into practice.
The Con Man instigated this chat with absurd negative and unprovable allegations linking virtually all drug activity in PitCo to our sheriff’s philosophy. Con Man stretched to goofy, even embarrassing polemic lengths to stay in his devil’s advocate pants. He set himself up. Which is why I claim my God-given right to call bullshit.
The Con Man’s fugue state mania on the drug issue, close to his heart as it may be, has undermined his credibility as a moderator, whether Left or Right-leaning. I feel a little sorry for the naiveté that compelled him to do this on the radio. But you learn something every day whether you want to or not.
Braudis covered every inch of this ground years ago and he got it just right. Try talking to him instead of coming at him all prejudged and bent on intimidation. He sees it like an old soul. We’re lucky to have him. The big fart’s just no fun at parties anymore.
What follows is a true story.
A few years back a sheriff in southern Colorado laid an elaborate drug interdiction trap prior to The Telluride Bluegrass Festival. I know details because depositions were taken at the Festival.
After watching how the Greeks held off the Persians at Thermopylae on the History Channel I realized the cops used a technically updated blueprint on CO HWY 145.
Deep in a long canyon big signs were placed roadside, “Drug Interdiction Stop Ahead, 1 Mile.” Camouflaged spotters on the cliffs watched for any car that turned around, slowed down, or pulled off for the baggie toss. Probable cause, you see. They radioed chasers hidden roadside. These guys were on motorcycles, clad in black leather with smoked glass face shields. When alleged perps were stopped, they had to hit the dirt SWAT-style and sniff the muzzle of large caliber weapons while the scary motorcycle guys screamed obscenities and backup arrived. We’re talking about families. Entire hippie buses were tossed, then abruptly abandoned when the enforcers got a new call.
You may have read about it.
This is the kind of triumphant victory fantasy that plays out in the Puritan/Absolutist mind. I’m referring to those of you who are calling for very strict drug enforcement, however righteous your motivation.
In my experience there are exactly two kinds of cops, the Busters and the Helpers. You probably have met them both.
My first week in Aspen (late ’70s), an Aspen policeman caught me lighting up, right downtown. He appeared at my van window and my asshole clenched. Then he said, “Put that away. Do you want to get busted? I don’t care what you’ve heard about this town, you can’t fire up on the street.”
Verbatim. This peace officer was a Mensch. He assumed I had a life and that life would not be improved by jail time. Message received.
How do you want your peace officers? Bust-thirsty Puritanical overlord bullies or thoughtful professionals with a developed sense of proportion? The former gets adrenaline from war fantasies, the latter gets endorphin by putting peace into practice.
The Con Man instigated this chat with absurd negative and unprovable allegations linking virtually all drug activity in PitCo to our sheriff’s philosophy. Con Man stretched to goofy, even embarrassing polemic lengths to stay in his devil’s advocate pants. He set himself up. Which is why I claim my God-given right to call bullshit.
The Con Man’s fugue state mania on the drug issue, close to his heart as it may be, has undermined his credibility as a moderator, whether Left or Right-leaning. I feel a little sorry for the naiveté that compelled him to do this on the radio. But you learn something every day whether you want to or not.
Braudis covered every inch of this ground years ago and he got it just right. Try talking to him instead of coming at him all prejudged and bent on intimidation. He sees it like an old soul. We’re lucky to have him. The big fart’s just no fun at parties anymore.
I disagree very strongly on how to deal with this situation, with Michael and others. While I believe the sincerity of Michael, some others are being silly. Imagine this just for a moment. A dog supplied some poop on the sidewalk. I am not refering to the legality of the dog pooping, I am refering to the poop. Is the poop morally evil, sinister and “bad” or is your stepping into it the problem. You walk into your home, you kid says “gee Dad, you stink,” now you have effected others! But you kind of liked that squishy smush of stepping into it so you do it again and again!! You dirty little addict! So so the cry of the pass the buck conservatives denounce that poop and do call it “evil” “sinister,” etc. So they pass laws. Oh no! now you have to resort to knocking over port opotties to get poop any poop will do. Now you have broken the law too you rotten criminal. But the heavy hand of restrictions and enforcement drive poop underground. “Psst” you hear a voice. “Hey! I got some poop for you. Only fitty, for an extra ten I’ll toss it on the sidewalk just like you like it.” Deal!!!!!! A pun on words? You betcha. Ridiculous — of course!! Now you poop dealer gets busted, your taxes have gone up to pay for merely cleaning the sidewalk, to enforcement, to adjucication, and now for incarceration. Now your deal is sixty plus the ten. Stop blaming the suppliers for everything when the demand defines the supply. You want to stop this make it legal. Take the money and profit out, educate the populace, in a manner that indicates that stepping into poop stinks, hurts your family and others. There is plenty of hemlock why aren’t people flocking to that it is free and plentiful? No demand.
I want to hear what Rick Magnuson has to say as I don’t know him, I have met him once the same ss Sheriff Braudis.
I disagree very strongly on how to deal with this situation, with Michael and others. While I believe the sincerity of Michael, some others are being silly. Imagine this just for a moment. A dog supplied some poop on the sidewalk. I am not refering to the legality of the dog pooping, I am refering to the poop. Is the poop morally evil, sinister and “bad” or is your stepping into it the problem. You walk into your home, you kid says “gee Dad, you stink,” now you have effected others! But you kind of liked that squishy smush of stepping into it so you do it again and again!! You dirty little addict! So so the cry of the pass the buck conservatives denounce that poop and do call it “evil” “sinister,” etc. So they pass laws. Oh no! now you have to resort to knocking over port opotties to get poop any poop will do. Now you have broken the law too you rotten criminal. But the heavy hand of restrictions and enforcement drive poop underground. “Psst” you hear a voice. “Hey! I got some poop for you. Only fitty, for an extra ten I’ll toss it on the sidewalk just like you like it.” Deal!!!!!! A pun on words? You betcha. Ridiculous — of course!! Now you poop dealer gets busted, your taxes have gone up to pay for merely cleaning the sidewalk, to enforcement, to adjucication, and now for incarceration. Now your deal is sixty plus the ten. Stop blaming the suppliers for everything when the demand defines the supply. You want to stop this make it legal. Take the money and profit out, educate the populace, in a manner that indicates that stepping into poop stinks, hurts your family and others. There is plenty of hemlock why aren’t people flocking to that it is free and plentiful? No demand.
I want to hear what Rick Magnuson has to say as I don’t know him, I have met him once the same ss Sheriff Braudis.
What is with this simplistic attitude of “make it legal” and it goes away? Not one of you in any of your statements has even bothered to outline any feasible plan on how to do this. I have on at least two occasions given details on why this would not work. Yet you rant on.
By your idiotic logic, if we want child molesters to stop molesting kids, we ought to just make it legal. Then they are not breaking the law. I mean, as long as they molest the kids in their own homes, who would it hurt? Talk to the sicko’s at MBLA and this is exactly what they are pushing for. Many of you get so wrapped up in trying to justify your own selfish desires that you forget about the victims of what is going on. The culprits here are not the police; it’s the selfish person putting their family, kids, and the society around them in danger so they can enjoy a little “blow”. Even Pastor Mustard is saying Braudis is no fun at parties anymore and now the Pastor has to snort without his big buddy. No thought that it was killing Braudis. Selfish? You bet, but then that’s been the manta of those screaming to use their “products” in peace for free.
Me, I could care less about the “legalizers”. Its only a matter of time before most will end up dead in the bathroom with a needle in their arm from a heroin OD, or like Flip, dead in bed from a cocaine OD, or like Hunter, the “Aspen old-gang” leader, dead from a nice .45 though the skull cause he was enlightened enough to know what a looser he really had become. I will give Braudis due credit that he decided to attack his problem before it killed him. I am happy he did. It doesn’t matter that our philosophies are different; I know the guy and wouldn’t wish anything bad on him. How ironic though that he could be the one who will be attending the autopsy of Pastor Mustard once he “parties” one time too many.
Good luck.
What is with this simplistic attitude of “make it legal” and it goes away? Not one of you in any of your statements has even bothered to outline any feasible plan on how to do this. I have on at least two occasions given details on why this would not work. Yet you rant on.
By your idiotic logic, if we want child molesters to stop molesting kids, we ought to just make it legal. Then they are not breaking the law. I mean, as long as they molest the kids in their own homes, who would it hurt? Talk to the sicko’s at MBLA and this is exactly what they are pushing for. Many of you get so wrapped up in trying to justify your own selfish desires that you forget about the victims of what is going on. The culprits here are not the police; it’s the selfish person putting their family, kids, and the society around them in danger so they can enjoy a little “blow”. Even Pastor Mustard is saying Braudis is no fun at parties anymore and now the Pastor has to snort without his big buddy. No thought that it was killing Braudis. Selfish? You bet, but then that’s been the manta of those screaming to use their “products” in peace for free.
Me, I could care less about the “legalizers”. Its only a matter of time before most will end up dead in the bathroom with a needle in their arm from a heroin OD, or like Flip, dead in bed from a cocaine OD, or like Hunter, the “Aspen old-gang” leader, dead from a nice .45 though the skull cause he was enlightened enough to know what a looser he really had become. I will give Braudis due credit that he decided to attack his problem before it killed him. I am happy he did. It doesn’t matter that our philosophies are different; I know the guy and wouldn’t wish anything bad on him. How ironic though that he could be the one who will be attending the autopsy of Pastor Mustard once he “parties” one time too many.
Good luck.
Okay, Michael. Essentially, you assert that there are people dying in Pitkin County because the Sheriff won’t do entrapment work and military-style no-knock raids to enforce our incoherent drug laws? That’s quite an accusation.
And by this statement, you are of course referring to the unincorporated portions of the county outside Aspen, Basalt, and Snowmass — where the Sheriff actually has jurisdiction — as opposed to within the city limits, where most of the people live and most of the crimes happen — under the jurisdiction of the APD.
If the Sheriff would only kick in some doors in another jurisdiction, and bash some skulls of coke snorters; then the suffering would end? Or even be noticeably dented we can hope?
Maybe not a kerfuffle, Michael; but you are off your moorings just the same.
You are in danger of following alpha6 down into the place where he gleefully looks forward to the funerals of those who disagree with him.
To both of you, I ask that before we show you how decriminalization will work, you show us how well criminalization has worked so far. Then talk about the damned mess the enforcement police state has created along the way.
Drug abuse is tragic, yes. So is lots of abuse. Funny thing is, abusers march on with their substance or behavior of choice, regardless of laws or role models, or little kids and wives and other people in cars caught in their wake.
Back when I did my teenage drug thing; they were illegal, hard to get, and not very popular among my role models and parental types. Yet we found them and used them. Some of my friends went off the rails. Most did not. Some who passed on the drugs later cracked up on booze instead. A couple skipped the substance addictions and went to jail for embezzlement instead. So it goes.
Our current drug laws are not working very well to address human misery; but they are backfiring like hell on the rest of society.
Okay, Michael. Essentially, you assert that there are people dying in Pitkin County because the Sheriff won’t do entrapment work and military-style no-knock raids to enforce our incoherent drug laws? That’s quite an accusation.
And by this statement, you are of course referring to the unincorporated portions of the county outside Aspen, Basalt, and Snowmass — where the Sheriff actually has jurisdiction — as opposed to within the city limits, where most of the people live and most of the crimes happen — under the jurisdiction of the APD.
If the Sheriff would only kick in some doors in another jurisdiction, and bash some skulls of coke snorters; then the suffering would end? Or even be noticeably dented we can hope?
Maybe not a kerfuffle, Michael; but you are off your moorings just the same.
You are in danger of following alpha6 down into the place where he gleefully looks forward to the funerals of those who disagree with him.
To both of you, I ask that before we show you how decriminalization will work, you show us how well criminalization has worked so far. Then talk about the damned mess the enforcement police state has created along the way.
Drug abuse is tragic, yes. So is lots of abuse. Funny thing is, abusers march on with their substance or behavior of choice, regardless of laws or role models, or little kids and wives and other people in cars caught in their wake.
Back when I did my teenage drug thing; they were illegal, hard to get, and not very popular among my role models and parental types. Yet we found them and used them. Some of my friends went off the rails. Most did not. Some who passed on the drugs later cracked up on booze instead. A couple skipped the substance addictions and went to jail for embezzlement instead. So it goes.
Our current drug laws are not working very well to address human misery; but they are backfiring like hell on the rest of society.
Yo Chief,
“before we show you how decriminalization will work, you show us how well criminalization has worked so far. Then talk about the damned mess the enforcement police state has created along the way.”
I love it. You still have no idea as to how to incorporate your ideas about decriminalization. The statistics regarding the current drug laws, arrests, convictions, etc. are readily available to anyone with any savvy who knows how to use Google.
Second, you throw around this notion that you live in a “police state” constantly. My first question is what state you live in, because Colorado is no police state. I would suggest to you to travel to a couple of countries that actually are “police states” to get an idea of what exactly you are talking about.
Here in the United States you have freedom undreamed of in most of the world. Your assertions of living in a police state are just ludicrous.
I find it amusing that you have yet to qualify your argument for legalization, yet you continue to rant about generalzations that have no bearing on the arguemnent and skew the words of others in your comments. Maybe if you would lessen your emotional tirades and focused on fact and reason, your arguments would be more acceptable to those who may not share your point of view.
Yo Chief,
“before we show you how decriminalization will work, you show us how well criminalization has worked so far. Then talk about the damned mess the enforcement police state has created along the way.”
I love it. You still have no idea as to how to incorporate your ideas about decriminalization. The statistics regarding the current drug laws, arrests, convictions, etc. are readily available to anyone with any savvy who knows how to use Google.
Second, you throw around this notion that you live in a “police state” constantly. My first question is what state you live in, because Colorado is no police state. I would suggest to you to travel to a couple of countries that actually are “police states” to get an idea of what exactly you are talking about.
Here in the United States you have freedom undreamed of in most of the world. Your assertions of living in a police state are just ludicrous.
I find it amusing that you have yet to qualify your argument for legalization, yet you continue to rant about generalzations that have no bearing on the arguemnent and skew the words of others in your comments. Maybe if you would lessen your emotional tirades and focused on fact and reason, your arguments would be more acceptable to those who may not share your point of view.
Hey alpha, on the topic of generalizations, please do wake me as soon as you lay off the big promises and oblique assurances and lay down a single actual specific statistic.
As for emotional rhetoric, I am not sure what to make of your looking forward to the Pastor’s overdose and celebrating Hunter’s suicide, but rational detachment is not within the range of possibilities.
Hey alpha, on the topic of generalizations, please do wake me as soon as you lay off the big promises and oblique assurances and lay down a single actual specific statistic.
As for emotional rhetoric, I am not sure what to make of your looking forward to the Pastor’s overdose and celebrating Hunter’s suicide, but rational detachment is not within the range of possibilities.
Chief,
What big promises are you talking about? What assurances? Please cut and paste where I have written any such thing. If you want specific, line by line items, scroll up and read my posts. It is there in black and white. I even numbered them for you so you wouldn’t lose track.
Once again you have skewed what I have written, so I will cut and paste for you those items you are referring to.
On commenting on Pastor’s crying that Sheriff Braudis is no longer fun at parties because he doesn’t get stoned with them, I congratulated the Sheriff for kicking the habit and then stated “How ironic though that he could be the one who will be attending the autopsy of Pastor Mustard once he “parties” one time too many.” Irony is not the same as looking forward. Maybe I am using words that you are not familiar with.
Second, I did not celebrate Hunter committing suicide. I am not the one who pulled the trigger on your hero, he did. I was commenting on the fact that Hunter, who was living the “Aspen” dream, had everything going for him, and killed himself in a drug induced state. It’s amazing to me how you and others can continually miss the obvious with regards to drug use. I mean if Hunter wasn’t a wake up call for you and those sharing your philosophy, then no amount of blogging on this site will ever change your mind.
Once again, no mention from you about your plan on legalization. We ever going to get anything on that?
Chief,
What big promises are you talking about? What assurances? Please cut and paste where I have written any such thing. If you want specific, line by line items, scroll up and read my posts. It is there in black and white. I even numbered them for you so you wouldn’t lose track.
Once again you have skewed what I have written, so I will cut and paste for you those items you are referring to.
On commenting on Pastor’s crying that Sheriff Braudis is no longer fun at parties because he doesn’t get stoned with them, I congratulated the Sheriff for kicking the habit and then stated “How ironic though that he could be the one who will be attending the autopsy of Pastor Mustard once he “parties” one time too many.” Irony is not the same as looking forward. Maybe I am using words that you are not familiar with.
Second, I did not celebrate Hunter committing suicide. I am not the one who pulled the trigger on your hero, he did. I was commenting on the fact that Hunter, who was living the “Aspen” dream, had everything going for him, and killed himself in a drug induced state. It’s amazing to me how you and others can continually miss the obvious with regards to drug use. I mean if Hunter wasn’t a wake up call for you and those sharing your philosophy, then no amount of blogging on this site will ever change your mind.
Once again, no mention from you about your plan on legalization. We ever going to get anything on that?
Y’all know that old saw? “Never wrestle a pig. You both get dirty but the pig likes it.”
I thought this blog was getting somewhere until you-know-who drank too much coffee again,
We can all see who shines a some light and who’s just a bully. So I’m calling it. We’re suckin’ mud.
And how come nobody raised this crucial point: if you arrest all the dealers, where the hell do you score? Duh.
I hereby bequeath my pineal gland to alpha6.
RIP.
Y’all know that old saw? “Never wrestle a pig. You both get dirty but the pig likes it.”
I thought this blog was getting somewhere until you-know-who drank too much coffee again,
We can all see who shines a some light and who’s just a bully. So I’m calling it. We’re suckin’ mud.
And how come nobody raised this crucial point: if you arrest all the dealers, where the hell do you score? Duh.
I hereby bequeath my pineal gland to alpha6.
RIP.
Chief Hosa wrote: “…. I ask that before we show you how decriminalization will work, you show us how well criminalization has worked so far.” I can’t see a better place to start. Chief has a knack for stripping away the point-counterpoint approach and consistently puts the issue in visceral terms, that quite frankly, ring true from a common sense point of view. And Pastor makes many of the same points, but in a more gonzo style.
As a result, I don’t think their perspectives should be discounted. Alpha asked me, quite appropriately, in another post to outline a strategy for legalization of drugs. It’s a legitimate request, but I gotta tell you, that’s a daunting task and I don’t profess to have all the answers. I hope I can zero in on some innovative ideas, but the answers need to be a collaborative effort.
The point that is being missed is as follows:
We know there are drug users in Pitkin County, and even here in good ‘ol Garfield County. We know that the drugs I’m referring to are illegal, both for consumption and distribution. There appears to be ample evidence that drug interdiction and enforcement could be more vigorous. Before we demand our government to be more vigorous in their interdiction and enforcement actions, there needs to be a good reason for it.
Thus, the demand should be (in my opinion) “Show me why and how stronger drug enforcement is the answer to the perceived problem.” I have not seen anyone address that head-on. And I’m not talking about simplistic arguments like “but it’s against the law!” or “if a drug crackdown saves even one person from destroying himself or herself, it’s worth it!” Those are rhetorical approaches to a real-world issue.
Is there not a basic question of logic here? If people choose to use, possess and distribute drugs under threat of self-destruction, incarceration, or armed gun-in-your-mouth constable interaction, why do we assume that the problem will be lessened by more incarceration and guns in your mouth?
Do you think that a kid (or old hippie) will respond to a Telluride Blues Festival dragnet by saying “gee, I’d better reassess my lifestyle–maybe I have a drug problem and those guys that just made me sprawl on the pavement are the enlightened ones…” My experience leads me to believe that the primary result of such draconian measures would be that you have a whole new bunch of “@#$% authority!” converts.
My eyes and basic instincts lead me to believe that criminalization of drugs isn’t working. I could be wrong. Why doesn’t someone show me and others that it is working and/or can work? In the meantime, I’ll continue to look at statistics and ponder…and when I’ve solved the world’s problems by decriminalizing drugs, you all can join me in the “No-Kool-Aid-Zone of the Drug Factor. What say you?
Chief Hosa wrote: “…. I ask that before we show you how decriminalization will work, you show us how well criminalization has worked so far.” I can’t see a better place to start. Chief has a knack for stripping away the point-counterpoint approach and consistently puts the issue in visceral terms, that quite frankly, ring true from a common sense point of view. And Pastor makes many of the same points, but in a more gonzo style.
As a result, I don’t think their perspectives should be discounted. Alpha asked me, quite appropriately, in another post to outline a strategy for legalization of drugs. It’s a legitimate request, but I gotta tell you, that’s a daunting task and I don’t profess to have all the answers. I hope I can zero in on some innovative ideas, but the answers need to be a collaborative effort.
The point that is being missed is as follows:
We know there are drug users in Pitkin County, and even here in good ‘ol Garfield County. We know that the drugs I’m referring to are illegal, both for consumption and distribution. There appears to be ample evidence that drug interdiction and enforcement could be more vigorous. Before we demand our government to be more vigorous in their interdiction and enforcement actions, there needs to be a good reason for it.
Thus, the demand should be (in my opinion) “Show me why and how stronger drug enforcement is the answer to the perceived problem.” I have not seen anyone address that head-on. And I’m not talking about simplistic arguments like “but it’s against the law!” or “if a drug crackdown saves even one person from destroying himself or herself, it’s worth it!” Those are rhetorical approaches to a real-world issue.
Is there not a basic question of logic here? If people choose to use, possess and distribute drugs under threat of self-destruction, incarceration, or armed gun-in-your-mouth constable interaction, why do we assume that the problem will be lessened by more incarceration and guns in your mouth?
Do you think that a kid (or old hippie) will respond to a Telluride Blues Festival dragnet by saying “gee, I’d better reassess my lifestyle–maybe I have a drug problem and those guys that just made me sprawl on the pavement are the enlightened ones…” My experience leads me to believe that the primary result of such draconian measures would be that you have a whole new bunch of “@#$% authority!” converts.
My eyes and basic instincts lead me to believe that criminalization of drugs isn’t working. I could be wrong. Why doesn’t someone show me and others that it is working and/or can work? In the meantime, I’ll continue to look at statistics and ponder…and when I’ve solved the world’s problems by decriminalizing drugs, you all can join me in the “No-Kool-Aid-Zone of the Drug Factor. What say you?
Mr. Conniff,
Feedback on your radio show with Rick.
You said, “ They changed term limits so Braudis could stay in office . . .” “They” didn’t modify term limits, “We, The Voters,” did. Big difference. Slip of the tongue? Maybe, maybe not. Your campaign to git Braudis is full of specious misrepresentations, as I wish to point out.
Consistently, you misrepresent that Braudis said he refuses to enforce drug laws. I can’t remember him EVER unequivocally saying such a thing.
I recall him saying he firmly believes The War On Drugs© wastes federal and regional money. I’m certain Bob’s been on record stating he won’t support undercover operations in his jurisdiction, from any agency.
Since you attach the misleading sound bite, “Braudis SAYS he refuses to enforce drug laws . . .” to each mention of his name, you should have serious, serious proof. If you can’t come up with it, one can draw three conclusions: One, you’re misinformed; two, you’re hallucinating; three, character assassination. You air your allegation OVER AND OVER AND OVER—that Bob explicitly has a policy of zero drug enforcement. Prove it. Please.
I have to wonder if you hear how close to slander your drumbeat reiteration sounds?
You couch Bob’s visit to Desert Canyon in the negative. Doesn’t matter if you issued a qualification in passing. I hear you work the negative aspect with zeal. Dude, a rehab retreat (wellness, whatever), is a positive choice. Good, not bad. This is general knowledge, but not for The Con Man. Conclusion: The Con Man probably has an axe to grind.
As to your related tattling campaign—that he hid his whereabouts—you ought to know that rehab is a private thing. A very personal thing. That’s why Desert Canyon didn’t release his name. None of those places do. Most of us respect the rationale.
Very public persons do rehab and they don’t all send their publicist out with a press release. Mel Gibson did. Madonna might. You, and just about everyone else, might not.
Hypothetically, what if the sheriff got shot and was down for weeks? I think his lieutenants are sufficiently well-trained to cover him. Even if Madonna visits.
Your make a cogent distinction about Bob’s public persona, but you are one also. The Con Man can take responsibility for the gravitas celebrity carries. He can bring light into this bad old world—or not. It’s the Con Man’s choice.
I want to clue you. There’s one Aspen addiction more rampant than recreational drugs. Gossip. It’s a tradition. I watched sycophants whispering around Tony Hershey during his tenure as City councilman. These hangers-on want to hear their digs on your show. I suggest you listen, but don’t count toadies as a source. Skewed intentions. Investigate, for sure, but repeat half-truths and you’ll have to change your resumé to read: Michael Conniff, Gossip Columnist.
I get the sense that Rick regrets that call to Desert Canyon. As you know, Hewlett-Packard execs may be tried for pretexting. The Rocky Mountain News article has Rick flatly denying obfuscation. He’s splitting hairs, don’t you think? My understanding is that Rick never mentioned his own name, only Daily News editor Rick Carroll’s. Hmm.
I like Magnuson. Athlete, artist, etc. He’s a true Aspen character. Just the kind of guy who should be policing us. His descent into pretexting, and his denial of it was a crumby way to come out of the chute. Why don’t you call on him to make a public apology? The way you demanded as much from Braudis.
I don’t know about Rick’s research into the sheriff’s historic lack of dealer convictions. Point is, I don’t think you do either. Those trials are often moved to distant jurisdictions. Did you check? Did you ask Bob? You sort of fell on it like a bull dyke on a girl scout, like you did on alpha6’s armchair analysis of drug enforcement/rehabilitation monies.
I didn’t take it lightly when you announced that this debate has put your show on the map. Considering the above, it sounded confessional and a bit like roostering. Down, boy.
Good luck with your show. I think if you get through this patch you’ll be okay.
Bless You My Son,
Pastor Mustard
Mr. Conniff,
Feedback on your radio show with Rick.
You said, “ They changed term limits so Braudis could stay in office . . .” “They” didn’t modify term limits, “We, The Voters,” did. Big difference. Slip of the tongue? Maybe, maybe not. Your campaign to git Braudis is full of specious misrepresentations, as I wish to point out.
Consistently, you misrepresent that Braudis said he refuses to enforce drug laws. I can’t remember him EVER unequivocally saying such a thing.
I recall him saying he firmly believes The War On Drugs© wastes federal and regional money. I’m certain Bob’s been on record stating he won’t support undercover operations in his jurisdiction, from any agency.
Since you attach the misleading sound bite, “Braudis SAYS he refuses to enforce drug laws . . .” to each mention of his name, you should have serious, serious proof. If you can’t come up with it, one can draw three conclusions: One, you’re misinformed; two, you’re hallucinating; three, character assassination. You air your allegation OVER AND OVER AND OVER—that Bob explicitly has a policy of zero drug enforcement. Prove it. Please.
I have to wonder if you hear how close to slander your drumbeat reiteration sounds?
You couch Bob’s visit to Desert Canyon in the negative. Doesn’t matter if you issued a qualification in passing. I hear you work the negative aspect with zeal. Dude, a rehab retreat (wellness, whatever), is a positive choice. Good, not bad. This is general knowledge, but not for The Con Man. Conclusion: The Con Man probably has an axe to grind.
As to your related tattling campaign—that he hid his whereabouts—you ought to know that rehab is a private thing. A very personal thing. That’s why Desert Canyon didn’t release his name. None of those places do. Most of us respect the rationale.
Very public persons do rehab and they don’t all send their publicist out with a press release. Mel Gibson did. Madonna might. You, and just about everyone else, might not.
Hypothetically, what if the sheriff got shot and was down for weeks? I think his lieutenants are sufficiently well-trained to cover him. Even if Madonna visits.
Your make a cogent distinction about Bob’s public persona, but you are one also. The Con Man can take responsibility for the gravitas celebrity carries. He can bring light into this bad old world—or not. It’s the Con Man’s choice.
I want to clue you. There’s one Aspen addiction more rampant than recreational drugs. Gossip. It’s a tradition. I watched sycophants whispering around Tony Hershey during his tenure as City councilman. These hangers-on want to hear their digs on your show. I suggest you listen, but don’t count toadies as a source. Skewed intentions. Investigate, for sure, but repeat half-truths and you’ll have to change your resumé to read: Michael Conniff, Gossip Columnist.
I get the sense that Rick regrets that call to Desert Canyon. As you know, Hewlett-Packard execs may be tried for pretexting. The Rocky Mountain News article has Rick flatly denying obfuscation. He’s splitting hairs, don’t you think? My understanding is that Rick never mentioned his own name, only Daily News editor Rick Carroll’s. Hmm.
I like Magnuson. Athlete, artist, etc. He’s a true Aspen character. Just the kind of guy who should be policing us. His descent into pretexting, and his denial of it was a crumby way to come out of the chute. Why don’t you call on him to make a public apology? The way you demanded as much from Braudis.
I don’t know about Rick’s research into the sheriff’s historic lack of dealer convictions. Point is, I don’t think you do either. Those trials are often moved to distant jurisdictions. Did you check? Did you ask Bob? You sort of fell on it like a bull dyke on a girl scout, like you did on alpha6’s armchair analysis of drug enforcement/rehabilitation monies.
I didn’t take it lightly when you announced that this debate has put your show on the map. Considering the above, it sounded confessional and a bit like roostering. Down, boy.
Good luck with your show. I think if you get through this patch you’ll be okay.
Bless You My Son,
Pastor Mustard
Boy, it didn’t take you long to get back in the mud pit did it?
Other then rants, generalizations and personal attacks, I can’t see where you have contributed anything to the ongoing debate. Then again, maybe that’s your point. When others do give information supporting their arguments, you discount it outright, and from your comments it appears that you either don’t read them very well or lack a basic understanding of the English language to comprehend what the poster is saying. Either way, it’s amusing to see that you are so emotionally involved that even when you publicly resign yourself from further debate, you can’t help but jump back in.
“Any fool can criticize, condemn, and complain – and most fools do.”
Dale Carnegie
Boy, it didn’t take you long to get back in the mud pit did it?
Other then rants, generalizations and personal attacks, I can’t see where you have contributed anything to the ongoing debate. Then again, maybe that’s your point. When others do give information supporting their arguments, you discount it outright, and from your comments it appears that you either don’t read them very well or lack a basic understanding of the English language to comprehend what the poster is saying. Either way, it’s amusing to see that you are so emotionally involved that even when you publicly resign yourself from further debate, you can’t help but jump back in.
“Any fool can criticize, condemn, and complain – and most fools do.”
Dale Carnegie
Can you believe this guy? He gets my pineal gland the very day after I ohdee and yet he scorns me so. I thought you cared for me like a brother A6, albeit a retarded, embarrassing one. With hideous bedsores.
Hey everybody! I finally learned the difference between “then,” and “than!”
I learned it in Father Alabaster’s Day School and Feedlot for the Astonishingly Retarded, located outside Vibrolux, TN.
You won’t believe it but . . .
“Then,” the adverb, compares stuff in time mostly, and, “than,” the conjunction (get this!) compares two unequal thingies. And stuff.
It was real hard to figure out because I always spell funnetically, but Father Alabaster says I’d learn more if I wasn’t always pooping myself. And hoovering massive gaggers of extra fine deluxe Peruvian flake.
Father A always says, “Stop pooping up your back, you astonishing retard! And put down that feather duster!” I love him.
Well I have to go because of a sudden overwhelming compulsion to murder a puppy and some spiders because they looked at me funny and I hate them. Maybe I’ll criticize them first. Bwahhh ha-ha-ha-ha!
Can you believe this guy? He gets my pineal gland the very day after I ohdee and yet he scorns me so. I thought you cared for me like a brother A6, albeit a retarded, embarrassing one. With hideous bedsores.
Hey everybody! I finally learned the difference between “then,” and “than!”
I learned it in Father Alabaster’s Day School and Feedlot for the Astonishingly Retarded, located outside Vibrolux, TN.
You won’t believe it but . . .
“Then,” the adverb, compares stuff in time mostly, and, “than,” the conjunction (get this!) compares two unequal thingies. And stuff.
It was real hard to figure out because I always spell funnetically, but Father Alabaster says I’d learn more if I wasn’t always pooping myself. And hoovering massive gaggers of extra fine deluxe Peruvian flake.
Father A always says, “Stop pooping up your back, you astonishing retard! And put down that feather duster!” I love him.
Well I have to go because of a sudden overwhelming compulsion to murder a puppy and some spiders because they looked at me funny and I hate them. Maybe I’ll criticize them first. Bwahhh ha-ha-ha-ha!
A6
“Do you really think at this point mind programming is out of the question? I have seen it first hand, unfortunately.”
Dude, you have to tell us more about your first hand experiences. This is much better then all this legal/illegal drug stuff.
I would but, then I’d have to kill you… way off topic.
A6
“Do you really think at this point mind programming is out of the question? I have seen it first hand, unfortunately.”
Dude, you have to tell us more about your first hand experiences. This is much better then all this legal/illegal drug stuff.
I would but, then I’d have to kill you… way off topic.
Sorry about that.
I’m not sure what a6’s last post is in response to, and I wouldn’t respond seriously in any case.
Con Man started what turned out to be a worthy discussion for a while there even though the number of responders was on the low side.
I don’t have to explain my posts because, boink, there they are.
I may as well make a gratuitous observation.
The quotation ending with, “ . . . and most fools do,” was posted twice with one attribution to Benjamin Franklin and the other to Dale Carnegie—even though both were posted by the same guy, who suggests I have an English disability.
Sorry about that.
I’m not sure what a6’s last post is in response to, and I wouldn’t respond seriously in any case.
Con Man started what turned out to be a worthy discussion for a while there even though the number of responders was on the low side.
I don’t have to explain my posts because, boink, there they are.
I may as well make a gratuitous observation.
The quotation ending with, “ . . . and most fools do,” was posted twice with one attribution to Benjamin Franklin and the other to Dale Carnegie—even though both were posted by the same guy, who suggests I have an English disability.
Pastor,
I propose a truce and a return to the topics at hand. I think maybe we are being disingenuous to the debates by taunting those willing to enter into the debate and thus some may not want to join in for fear of ridicule. This is not something that I want and will seek curb my sarcasm in the future.
I am impressed that you would care enough about my use of “quotes” delve though my numerous comments. I take back what I said about you not reading my posts. However, I would like to point out that both Carnegie and Franklin are attributed to that quote and I thought it would only be fair to give both their fair due. If you care to check on those sources, please refer to the links below.
I do hope that you will stick around. You are like the abusive step-father I never had, and you are starting to grow on me.
http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/d/dalecarneg108920.html
http://jpetrie.myweb.uga.edu/poor_richard.html
Pastor,
I propose a truce and a return to the topics at hand. I think maybe we are being disingenuous to the debates by taunting those willing to enter into the debate and thus some may not want to join in for fear of ridicule. This is not something that I want and will seek curb my sarcasm in the future.
I am impressed that you would care enough about my use of “quotes” delve though my numerous comments. I take back what I said about you not reading my posts. However, I would like to point out that both Carnegie and Franklin are attributed to that quote and I thought it would only be fair to give both their fair due. If you care to check on those sources, please refer to the links below.
I do hope that you will stick around. You are like the abusive step-father I never had, and you are starting to grow on me.
http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/d/dalecarneg108920.html
http://jpetrie.myweb.uga.edu/poor_richard.html
Pastor,
I propose a truce. I think we have moved so far away from the topic that we are being disingenuous to the spirit of the debate.
I am impressed that you really have taken the time to read my comments and “quotes”, and take back what I said about you not doing so. However, with regards to the quote in question, it is attributed to both Franklin and Carnegie so I gave each their due. I posted the links below just in case you want to check up on me. I don’t mind being held accountable…keeps me on my toes.
I do hope that you will stick around. You are like the abusive step-father I never had, and you are starting to grow on me.
http://jpetrie.myweb.uga.edu/poor_richard.html
http://www.quotationspage.com/quote/765.html
Pastor,
I propose a truce. I think we have moved so far away from the topic that we are being disingenuous to the spirit of the debate.
I am impressed that you really have taken the time to read my comments and “quotes”, and take back what I said about you not doing so. However, with regards to the quote in question, it is attributed to both Franklin and Carnegie so I gave each their due. I posted the links below just in case you want to check up on me. I don’t mind being held accountable…keeps me on my toes.
I do hope that you will stick around. You are like the abusive step-father I never had, and you are starting to grow on me.
http://jpetrie.myweb.uga.edu/poor_richard.html
http://www.quotationspage.com/quote/765.html
Link, I think you give the American people too much credit. Despite the government’s well-documented dabbling in physical methods of mind control – from halinogenic drugs to experients with widespread water tampering and airial spraying experiments all going back over 50 years – the fact is, the American people are perfectly willing to have their minds controlled without physical intervention or chemical “softening up”,
Our descent into a nation of quibbling imbeciles was led not by MKUltra, but by Rush Limbaugh and Karl Rove. And a generation of patholigical angry white male losers folled them down after gulping only the drug of rhetorical koolaid.
Link, I think you give the American people too much credit. Despite the government’s well-documented dabbling in physical methods of mind control – from halinogenic drugs to experients with widespread water tampering and airial spraying experiments all going back over 50 years – the fact is, the American people are perfectly willing to have their minds controlled without physical intervention or chemical “softening up”,
Our descent into a nation of quibbling imbeciles was led not by MKUltra, but by Rush Limbaugh and Karl Rove. And a generation of patholigical angry white male losers folled them down after gulping only the drug of rhetorical koolaid.
Pastor,
I propose a truce. I think we have moved so far away from the topic that we are being disingenuous to the spirit of the debate.
I am impressed that you really have taken the time to read my comments and “quotes”, and take back what I said about you not doing so. However, with regards to the quote in question, it is attributed to both Franklin and Carnegie so I gave each their due. I posted the links below just in case you want to check up on me. I don’t mind being held accountable…keeps me on my toes.
I do hope that you will stick around. You remind me of the abusive step-father I never had.
http://www.quotationspage.com/quote/765.html
http://jpetrie.myweb.uga.edu/poor_richard.html
Pastor,
I propose a truce. I think we have moved so far away from the topic that we are being disingenuous to the spirit of the debate.
I am impressed that you really have taken the time to read my comments and “quotes”, and take back what I said about you not doing so. However, with regards to the quote in question, it is attributed to both Franklin and Carnegie so I gave each their due. I posted the links below just in case you want to check up on me. I don’t mind being held accountable…keeps me on my toes.
I do hope that you will stick around. You remind me of the abusive step-father I never had.
http://www.quotationspage.com/quote/765.html
http://jpetrie.myweb.uga.edu/poor_richard.html
Huh. How strange. A big, not so flattering story about your boy Rick Magnuson hits the cover of your favorite local paper and you opt not to take phone calls today. What a strange coincidence. It couldn’t be that you might have to admit Magnuson might not be the best choice to be the lead law enforcement official in Pitkin County (what a role model for kids!). No, it must just be a coincidence. After all, spending 80-90 minutes listening to you bloviate about national politics is just what locals are looking for from a local talk radio show.
Huh. How strange. A big, not so flattering story about your boy Rick Magnuson hits the cover of your favorite local paper and you opt not to take phone calls today. What a strange coincidence. It couldn’t be that you might have to admit Magnuson might not be the best choice to be the lead law enforcement official in Pitkin County (what a role model for kids!). No, it must just be a coincidence. After all, spending 80-90 minutes listening to you bloviate about national politics is just what locals are looking for from a local talk radio show.
By the way, Michael, is this the bust you’re referring to – the one we never heard about?
http://www.aspentimes.com/article/20060811/NEWS/108110053&SearchID=73259733247127
By the way, Michael, is this the bust you’re referring to – the one we never heard about?
http://www.aspentimes.com/article/20060811/NEWS/108110053&SearchID=73259733247127
Most mornings I listen to Con Games. I live on the other side of the mountain. Our view on Drugs has never been the same as Aspen’s, in fact, we simply seem to live in denial here in Eagle County. Thirty years ago I witnessed, first hand, the public display of cocaine use in restaurants in Aspen. First, let me say, I have no idea what Aspen should or shouldn’t do concerning their politics on drugs. However, I can offer the perspective of a mother that lost her son to cocaine, in four months, at the age of 19.
I believe, in the eight months he was missing before discovered dead, that I may have done more research on addiction and cocaine then many of you offering your opinions. I relentlessly worked with the police every day. I talked to kids that had become addicted. I talked to the actual dealers as well as the drug lords. I watched known traffickers go to jail, be deported and return within months to our lucrative streets. I talked to recovered addicts and I interviewed recovery facilities. The problem is much bigger than your sheriff but it’s certainly a place to start.
I believe YOUR children, too, are at risk. Its right under your nose and you don’t see it. Like me, you probably don’t think it will happen to you. I believe our young people are too immature to handle life altering decisions when offered easy access to any drug, at an early age. After all, they believe themselves to be invincible.
Just because SOME people can experience a gateway drug and not go on to sample harder drugs does not mean that your child can. It has alot to do with the chemistry of that individual as well as peer pressure.
I invite you to visit the web site, designed in memory of my son, that reflects my research and my son’s story. If you are open, it may provide a different perspective, particularly to parents. http://www.chadkesler.com. Educate yourselves, take a walk in my shoes and then tell me this won’t happen to you or to someone you know. I see it everyday but our schools, as well as parents, are in denial.
I like to play like anyone else but sometimes we need mature adults to make the rules to protect us until we can make these decisions as a responsible adult. Please consider this a warning! Please take a moment to look through the porthole of responsible policy and decision making.
Respectfully submitted as a concerned parent.
Most mornings I listen to Con Games. I live on the other side of the mountain. Our view on Drugs has never been the same as Aspen’s, in fact, we simply seem to live in denial here in Eagle County. Thirty years ago I witnessed, first hand, the public display of cocaine use in restaurants in Aspen. First, let me say, I have no idea what Aspen should or shouldn’t do concerning their politics on drugs. However, I can offer the perspective of a mother that lost her son to cocaine, in four months, at the age of 19.
I believe, in the eight months he was missing before discovered dead, that I may have done more research on addiction and cocaine then many of you offering your opinions. I relentlessly worked with the police every day. I talked to kids that had become addicted. I talked to the actual dealers as well as the drug lords. I watched known traffickers go to jail, be deported and return within months to our lucrative streets. I talked to recovered addicts and I interviewed recovery facilities. The problem is much bigger than your sheriff but it’s certainly a place to start.
I believe YOUR children, too, are at risk. Its right under your nose and you don’t see it. Like me, you probably don’t think it will happen to you. I believe our young people are too immature to handle life altering decisions when offered easy access to any drug, at an early age. After all, they believe themselves to be invincible.
Just because SOME people can experience a gateway drug and not go on to sample harder drugs does not mean that your child can. It has alot to do with the chemistry of that individual as well as peer pressure.
I invite you to visit the web site, designed in memory of my son, that reflects my research and my son’s story. If you are open, it may provide a different perspective, particularly to parents. http://www.chadkesler.com. Educate yourselves, take a walk in my shoes and then tell me this won’t happen to you or to someone you know. I see it everyday but our schools, as well as parents, are in denial.
I like to play like anyone else but sometimes we need mature adults to make the rules to protect us until we can make these decisions as a responsible adult. Please consider this a warning! Please take a moment to look through the porthole of responsible policy and decision making.
Respectfully submitted as a concerned parent.
Wow. well that is a sad story. Well, inasmuch as you posted here on a discussion board, let’s discuss it.
As I mentioned in a post just a couple ones above this, I grew up back when drugs were illegal and hard to get. In addition, back then, there were no progressive Sheriffs and there were very few parents who did drugs, or who knew the slightest thing about drugs – so the parental set roundly hated and/or feared drugs. And yet we found drugs and we did drugs and some of us had problems with those drugs.
And that remains the point – the laws have not stopped addiction, will not stop addiction, cannot stop addiction. Nor can a culture of intollerance or authoritarianism – that has been tried and it failed.
Frankly, a mature society that has a mature relationship with substance abuse and a working knowledge of the substances, as opposed to a unknowing fear of the unknown and surrenders oversight to the authorities, stands a much better chance of catching our kids before they go over the edge. One-on-one at the family/loved one level — that is how abuse is caught and where it is fought; not by the cops.
I am sorry for your loss. Your call for greater parental awareness is quite appropriate. That is whwre these things are caught, not by the government.
Wow. well that is a sad story. Well, inasmuch as you posted here on a discussion board, let’s discuss it.
As I mentioned in a post just a couple ones above this, I grew up back when drugs were illegal and hard to get. In addition, back then, there were no progressive Sheriffs and there were very few parents who did drugs, or who knew the slightest thing about drugs – so the parental set roundly hated and/or feared drugs. And yet we found drugs and we did drugs and some of us had problems with those drugs.
And that remains the point – the laws have not stopped addiction, will not stop addiction, cannot stop addiction. Nor can a culture of intollerance or authoritarianism – that has been tried and it failed.
Frankly, a mature society that has a mature relationship with substance abuse and a working knowledge of the substances, as opposed to a unknowing fear of the unknown and surrenders oversight to the authorities, stands a much better chance of catching our kids before they go over the edge. One-on-one at the family/loved one level — that is how abuse is caught and where it is fought; not by the cops.
I am sorry for your loss. Your call for greater parental awareness is quite appropriate. That is whwre these things are caught, not by the government.
[A big, not so flattering story about your boy Rick Magnuson hits the cover of your favorite local paper and you opt not to take phone calls today.]
I recall thinking the same thing this morning. I realize it’s Michael’s show, but Michael’s filibuster format places dogma over an otherwise balanced debate–would you like another brownie with that Coca Cola?
Michael’s done some terrific shows lately, but yesterday and today weren’t among them.
I found the news about Mr. Magnuson’s cinematic proclivities eye-brow-raising. In the spirit of Jocelyn Elders, let me say that… not everyone films it. That’s weird. Not in a John Mark Karr kind of way, but it’s still weird.
Michael’s conducting an interesting social experiment here. He’s hitched his horse to Magnuson’s wagon on the basis of a very sound argument–that drugs have far reaching effects that Braudis’ 1970s approach to drug law enforcement may have finally outgrown.
I’ve lived in this valley forty years, and I have to say the people at the upper end of this valley have always struck me as colorfully enigmatic…
Is a rational argument enough to win the minds of Pitkin County voters?
I think the answer hinges on what Rick Magnuson calls “art.”
Cheers,
[A big, not so flattering story about your boy Rick Magnuson hits the cover of your favorite local paper and you opt not to take phone calls today.]
I recall thinking the same thing this morning. I realize it’s Michael’s show, but Michael’s filibuster format places dogma over an otherwise balanced debate–would you like another brownie with that Coca Cola?
Michael’s done some terrific shows lately, but yesterday and today weren’t among them.
I found the news about Mr. Magnuson’s cinematic proclivities eye-brow-raising. In the spirit of Jocelyn Elders, let me say that… not everyone films it. That’s weird. Not in a John Mark Karr kind of way, but it’s still weird.
Michael’s conducting an interesting social experiment here. He’s hitched his horse to Magnuson’s wagon on the basis of a very sound argument–that drugs have far reaching effects that Braudis’ 1970s approach to drug law enforcement may have finally outgrown.
I’ve lived in this valley forty years, and I have to say the people at the upper end of this valley have always struck me as colorfully enigmatic…
Is a rational argument enough to win the minds of Pitkin County voters?
I think the answer hinges on what Rick Magnuson calls “art.”
Cheers,
Thanks to Another Perspective for that post. Some of these issues are serious in nature and touch people on a personal level while others of us debate it on a philosophical level. It’s good to get input from many different people so that we can better understand how these topics and this one in particular impact people.
Chief, I thought, bought up some interesting points, but I think I am going to look at those issues in a separate post.
Pastor, I propose a truce. I think we have moved so far away from the topic that we are being disingenuous to the spirit of the debate.
I am impressed that you really have taken the time to read my comments and “quotes”, and take back what I said about you not doing so. However, with regards to the quote in question, it is attributed to both Franklin and Carnegie so I gave each their due. I posted the links below just in case you want to check up on me. I don’t mind being held accountable…keeps me on my toes.
http://www.quotationspage.com/quote/765.html
http://jpetrie.myweb.uga.edu/poor_richard.html
Thanks to Another Perspective for that post. Some of these issues are serious in nature and touch people on a personal level while others of us debate it on a philosophical level. It’s good to get input from many different people so that we can better understand how these topics and this one in particular impact people.
Chief, I thought, bought up some interesting points, but I think I am going to look at those issues in a separate post.
Pastor, I propose a truce. I think we have moved so far away from the topic that we are being disingenuous to the spirit of the debate.
I am impressed that you really have taken the time to read my comments and “quotes”, and take back what I said about you not doing so. However, with regards to the quote in question, it is attributed to both Franklin and Carnegie so I gave each their due. I posted the links below just in case you want to check up on me. I don’t mind being held accountable…keeps me on my toes.
http://www.quotationspage.com/quote/765.html
http://jpetrie.myweb.uga.edu/poor_richard.html
It is pretty obvious that the con man has a pretty clear agenda as he has admitted. His reputation for imposing his beliefs on his fellow workers is somewhat well known. His intrest in preaching them to the listening public has been an equivalancy of the two pundits which follow him every day. Is the con man the next self-apointed Aspen sage filling Andrew Koles size 2 shoes. The fact of the matter is that the community has a very high opinion of Bob Braudis regardless of two weeks of ranting on the radio or Mr Magnusun’s art. Bob Braudis’s perspective on policing is well regarded by this community and is a reflection of the community.
It is pretty obvious that the con man has a pretty clear agenda as he has admitted. His reputation for imposing his beliefs on his fellow workers is somewhat well known. His intrest in preaching them to the listening public has been an equivalancy of the two pundits which follow him every day. Is the con man the next self-apointed Aspen sage filling Andrew Koles size 2 shoes. The fact of the matter is that the community has a very high opinion of Bob Braudis regardless of two weeks of ranting on the radio or Mr Magnusun’s art. Bob Braudis’s perspective on policing is well regarded by this community and is a reflection of the community.
Not sure if this will show up as I have not been able to comment on the “The Great (Drug) Divide In Pitkin County Politics” blog. I have tired several times and when I hit submit it just goes into cyber space. Must have hit my limit or there is some programming glitch. At any rate, it probably best I move on.
However, I did want to extend the hand of friendship and offer a truce with the Pastor. I am impressed that he really has taken the time to read my comments and “quotes”, and take back what I said about him not doing so. However, with regards to the quote in question, it is attributed to both Franklin and Carnegie so I gave each their due. I posted the links below just in case he wants to check up on me. I don’t mind being held accountable…keeps me on my toes. Now let’s see what happens when I hit submit…
http://www.quotationspage.com/quote/765.html
http://jpetrie.myweb.uga.edu/poor_richard.html
Not sure if this will show up as I have not been able to comment on the “The Great (Drug) Divide In Pitkin County Politics” blog. I have tired several times and when I hit submit it just goes into cyber space. Must have hit my limit or there is some programming glitch. At any rate, it probably best I move on.
However, I did want to extend the hand of friendship and offer a truce with the Pastor. I am impressed that he really has taken the time to read my comments and “quotes”, and take back what I said about him not doing so. However, with regards to the quote in question, it is attributed to both Franklin and Carnegie so I gave each their due. I posted the links below just in case he wants to check up on me. I don’t mind being held accountable…keeps me on my toes. Now let’s see what happens when I hit submit…
http://www.quotationspage.com/quote/765.html
http://jpetrie.myweb.uga.edu/poor_richard.html
[Bob Braudis's perspective on policing is well regarded by this community and is a reflection of the community.]
I agree.
[Is the [C]on [M]an the next self-apointed Aspen sage filling Andrew Kole[']s size 2 shoes[?]]
Shoe size and the who-is-Andrew-Kole question notwithwstanding, who the F*ck cares?
The question is what it has been all along. Who do you trust with law enforcement in PitCo?
Cheers,
[Bob Braudis's perspective on policing is well regarded by this community and is a reflection of the community.]
I agree.
[Is the [C]on [M]an the next self-apointed Aspen sage filling Andrew Kole[']s size 2 shoes[?]]
Shoe size and the who-is-Andrew-Kole question notwithwstanding, who the F*ck cares?
The question is what it has been all along. Who do you trust with law enforcement in PitCo?
Cheers,
Dude, you have to tell us more about your first hand experiences. This is much better then all this legal/illegal drug stuff.
I would but, then I’d have to kill you… way off topic
To set the record straight, my comment was a joke. A snide remark to a self proclaimed alpha, for which I have little patients. I hope you all still have a sense of humor. On my morning commute to Eagle today I noticed a lot police presence nearby in places I typically visit in the morning, perhaps this was coincidence, who knows, my comment was meant to simply say “buzz off.” I wouldn’t want to make anyone uncomfortable and certainly don’t want any trouble with the law. Thank you George Bush. Okay? Everybody?
Dude, you have to tell us more about your first hand experiences. This is much better then all this legal/illegal drug stuff.
I would but, then I’d have to kill you… way off topic
To set the record straight, my comment was a joke. A snide remark to a self proclaimed alpha, for which I have little patients. I hope you all still have a sense of humor. On my morning commute to Eagle today I noticed a lot police presence nearby in places I typically visit in the morning, perhaps this was coincidence, who knows, my comment was meant to simply say “buzz off.” I wouldn’t want to make anyone uncomfortable and certainly don’t want any trouble with the law. Thank you George Bush. Okay? Everybody?
Dude, you have to tell us more about your first hand experiences. This is much better then all this legal/illegal drug stuff.
I would but, then I’d have to kill you… way off topic
To set the record straight, my comment was a joke. A snide remark to a self proclaimed alpha, for which I have little patients. I hope you all still have a sense of humor. On my morning commute to Eagle today I noticed a lot police presence nearby in places I typically visit in the morning, perhaps this was coincidence, who knows, my comment was meant to simply say “buzz off.” I wouldn’t want to make anyone uncomfortable and certainly don’t want any trouble with the law. Thank you George Bush. Okay? Everybody?
Dude, you have to tell us more about your first hand experiences. This is much better then all this legal/illegal drug stuff.
I would but, then I’d have to kill you… way off topic
To set the record straight, my comment was a joke. A snide remark to a self proclaimed alpha, for which I have little patients. I hope you all still have a sense of humor. On my morning commute to Eagle today I noticed a lot police presence nearby in places I typically visit in the morning, perhaps this was coincidence, who knows, my comment was meant to simply say “buzz off.” I wouldn’t want to make anyone uncomfortable and certainly don’t want any trouble with the law. Thank you George Bush. Okay? Everybody?
In case you are wondering, I have not been able to comment on the “The Great (Drug) Divide In Pitkin County Politics” blog the last few days for some reason. I have tired several times and when I hit submit it just goes into cyber space. Must have hit my limit or there is some programming glitch. At any rate, it is probably best I move on.
However, I did want to extend the hand of friendship and offer a truce with the Pastor. I am impressed that he really has taken the time to read my comments and “quotes”, and take back what I said about him not doing so. However, with regards to the quote in question, it is attributed to both Franklin and Carnegie so I gave each their due. (Google it, you will see that I do not lie)
PS – And to Link, No worries…I don’t take these things personal and appreciate a good discussion even if it wonders off topic. And don’t worry about all the cops you are seeing they won’t come after you…yet… I told them to hold off for now. : )
In case you are wondering, I have not been able to comment on the “The Great (Drug) Divide In Pitkin County Politics” blog the last few days for some reason. I have tired several times and when I hit submit it just goes into cyber space. Must have hit my limit or there is some programming glitch. At any rate, it is probably best I move on.
However, I did want to extend the hand of friendship and offer a truce with the Pastor. I am impressed that he really has taken the time to read my comments and “quotes”, and take back what I said about him not doing so. However, with regards to the quote in question, it is attributed to both Franklin and Carnegie so I gave each their due. (Google it, you will see that I do not lie)
PS – And to Link, No worries…I don’t take these things personal and appreciate a good discussion even if it wonders off topic. And don’t worry about all the cops you are seeing they won’t come after you…yet… I told them to hold off for now. : )
Michael, I was pleasantly surprised when I heard my blog read on your Monday morning program. I hope that teachers and parents, alike, were listening. You assumed that my son died from an overdose of cocaine. He did not. Chief Hosa implied that it was the responsibility of the family to deal with addiction. I agree. The point I would like to stress is that kids, particularly those with addictive and compulsive personalities, are liable to try drugs. Who among us didn’t? Eventually and inevitably, this family problem becomes a societal burden, however. Drug usage among our teens is further exacerbated with poor law enforcement, inadequate judicial procedures/jail space, with the added dilemna of the viability of trafficking by illegal aliens. It is just too easy for our teenagers to obtain drugs, to afford them, and when they get in way over their heads, as my son did, the dealers threaten them and their families. Any kid under 21 is too immature to know how to deal with these threats. Chad solved the problem the only way he knew how. He hid his truck and hung himself in a place where his body might never have been found. With the paranoia of drugs, he couldn’t reason that the dealers were probably bluffing. Or were they?
I thought Jose’s call, this morning, hit the nail on the head with regard to the issues of drug availability. Illegal aleins support entire families at the expense of ours. They have no fear of repercussion. Yes, my story is sad but here is the point to my blog: 1) drugs are plentiful and cheap. Any working kid in our valley can afford cocaine; 2) they are more potent than ever. Smoking versus snorting cocaine is like the difference between a tricycle and an Indy car (according to articles I’ve read); 3) Kids want to experiment BUT they have not been provided with the entire truth, the proper awareness of what these drugs can/will do. Besides, the fact they feel invicible at that age; 4) schools and parents are in denial. They also have not educated themselves; 5) the drug dealers are probably 5 to 1 hispanic in our area and they are not retained in our jails. Instead they are deported or set free, either way they are back on our streets; 6) There is no one resource in Eagle County for drug crisis. I went to police, a drug couselor and AA and received very bad advice that I believe cost me my son; 7) Seven kids overdosed the summer my son was missing. It was never in the papers. We do not want to advertise our problem. The newspapers did not want to publish my story. Since that summer, two more teenagers, just that I know of personally, have committed drug related suicides from this town.
Do you have families in Aspen? Or can’t families afford to live there? No one seems to call in with a concern for the teenagers. This is a very difficult time to be a teenager. I respect Chief Hosa’s comment about maturity and responsibility in the home but there is much danger on our streets!
Incidentally, the web site (chadkesler.com) was designed to be informative about addiction and to warn parents that ADD kids, may be particularly at risk for addiction. Having said that, however, my son had been sober for almost a year, prior to being introduced to crack, while recovering from surgery. He was taking a prescription drug which one could consider a ‘gateway drug’. It just took one night, one weak moment (we’ve all had them), while on a gateway drug, and his life spiraled down the toilet so fast I couldn’t save him. He had never tried hard drugs before this time. Don’t look the other way. It could be your kid next!
Michael, I was pleasantly surprised when I heard my blog read on your Monday morning program. I hope that teachers and parents, alike, were listening. You assumed that my son died from an overdose of cocaine. He did not. Chief Hosa implied that it was the responsibility of the family to deal with addiction. I agree. The point I would like to stress is that kids, particularly those with addictive and compulsive personalities, are liable to try drugs. Who among us didn’t? Eventually and inevitably, this family problem becomes a societal burden, however. Drug usage among our teens is further exacerbated with poor law enforcement, inadequate judicial procedures/jail space, with the added dilemna of the viability of trafficking by illegal aliens. It is just too easy for our teenagers to obtain drugs, to afford them, and when they get in way over their heads, as my son did, the dealers threaten them and their families. Any kid under 21 is too immature to know how to deal with these threats. Chad solved the problem the only way he knew how. He hid his truck and hung himself in a place where his body might never have been found. With the paranoia of drugs, he couldn’t reason that the dealers were probably bluffing. Or were they?
I thought Jose’s call, this morning, hit the nail on the head with regard to the issues of drug availability. Illegal aleins support entire families at the expense of ours. They have no fear of repercussion. Yes, my story is sad but here is the point to my blog: 1) drugs are plentiful and cheap. Any working kid in our valley can afford cocaine; 2) they are more potent than ever. Smoking versus snorting cocaine is like the difference between a tricycle and an Indy car (according to articles I’ve read); 3) Kids want to experiment BUT they have not been provided with the entire truth, the proper awareness of what these drugs can/will do. Besides, the fact they feel invicible at that age; 4) schools and parents are in denial. They also have not educated themselves; 5) the drug dealers are probably 5 to 1 hispanic in our area and they are not retained in our jails. Instead they are deported or set free, either way they are back on our streets; 6) There is no one resource in Eagle County for drug crisis. I went to police, a drug couselor and AA and received very bad advice that I believe cost me my son; 7) Seven kids overdosed the summer my son was missing. It was never in the papers. We do not want to advertise our problem. The newspapers did not want to publish my story. Since that summer, two more teenagers, just that I know of personally, have committed drug related suicides from this town.
Do you have families in Aspen? Or can’t families afford to live there? No one seems to call in with a concern for the teenagers. This is a very difficult time to be a teenager. I respect Chief Hosa’s comment about maturity and responsibility in the home but there is much danger on our streets!
Incidentally, the web site (chadkesler.com) was designed to be informative about addiction and to warn parents that ADD kids, may be particularly at risk for addiction. Having said that, however, my son had been sober for almost a year, prior to being introduced to crack, while recovering from surgery. He was taking a prescription drug which one could consider a ‘gateway drug’. It just took one night, one weak moment (we’ve all had them), while on a gateway drug, and his life spiraled down the toilet so fast I couldn’t save him. He had never tried hard drugs before this time. Don’t look the other way. It could be your kid next!
We do have families in Aspen and they’re not all wealthy as you imply. Aspen takes a lot of that guff. I don’t think the average Aspenite exists except as a point on some occasional demographic bell curve, so stereotyping kind of falls flat.
Not to misdirect from the point of your message.
Drugs are endemic among school kids everywhere. It gives us parents grey hair knowing for sure students can score in ten minutes. Aspen is far from unique in that regard.
Here’s what you’re unlikely to hear from the anti-Braudis people. The cops and the sheriff’s deputies seem to know all the kids in town. We’re lucky that way. They also seem to know where and when the parties are and they break them up regularly. Many juveniles have been set straight by these guys (and gals). Mine benefited greatly by knowing Braudis personally, who took time to check on them and deliver the straight talk. Buddy talk. The reason his interdiction was effective was because Bob’s authority stems from his authenticity. He commands the kind of respect you can’t earn from brandishing a sidearm or loading a paddy wagon.
Doesn’t show up as a statistic, though.
Yes indeed, we worry about heavy-handed policing. In a fractious climate such as the one that’s developing around this campaign we worry about enforcers emboldened to make their bones on numbers alone. That sort of crusade backfires. It’s such a fine line. Leadership is key.
Also, one can’t say the judiciary is lax. When we had a teen crime spree a while back, those bad boys got spanked silly.
Conniff is the new guy, trying to make his bones on a hot-button issue. He takes a lot of cheap shots. Like today: “People come to Aspen because they know they can get drugs easily.” Really? Is that why they come to Aspen? What about the, I don’t know, skiing.
On the other hand, if we hadn’t heard from The Con Man, we wouldn’t have heard from you. I’m glad you got your story out.
We do have families in Aspen and they’re not all wealthy as you imply. Aspen takes a lot of that guff. I don’t think the average Aspenite exists except as a point on some occasional demographic bell curve, so stereotyping kind of falls flat.
Not to misdirect from the point of your message.
Drugs are endemic among school kids everywhere. It gives us parents grey hair knowing for sure students can score in ten minutes. Aspen is far from unique in that regard.
Here’s what you’re unlikely to hear from the anti-Braudis people. The cops and the sheriff’s deputies seem to know all the kids in town. We’re lucky that way. They also seem to know where and when the parties are and they break them up regularly. Many juveniles have been set straight by these guys (and gals). Mine benefited greatly by knowing Braudis personally, who took time to check on them and deliver the straight talk. Buddy talk. The reason his interdiction was effective was because Bob’s authority stems from his authenticity. He commands the kind of respect you can’t earn from brandishing a sidearm or loading a paddy wagon.
Doesn’t show up as a statistic, though.
Yes indeed, we worry about heavy-handed policing. In a fractious climate such as the one that’s developing around this campaign we worry about enforcers emboldened to make their bones on numbers alone. That sort of crusade backfires. It’s such a fine line. Leadership is key.
Also, one can’t say the judiciary is lax. When we had a teen crime spree a while back, those bad boys got spanked silly.
Conniff is the new guy, trying to make his bones on a hot-button issue. He takes a lot of cheap shots. Like today: “People come to Aspen because they know they can get drugs easily.” Really? Is that why they come to Aspen? What about the, I don’t know, skiing.
On the other hand, if we hadn’t heard from The Con Man, we wouldn’t have heard from you. I’m glad you got your story out.
Whoa,
In talking to kids from elementary school to high school, none has ever seen Braudis at the School. APD Officers; Yes! Deputy Bruce; Yes! Braudis, never. I am not saying your kids don’t know Braudis, but don’t make it out to sound like this guy hangs out working with the kids in this town cause he doesn’t.
Funny you should mention those kids from the crime spree. If you are so close to the inner circle, then you know that certain “people” knew what these kids were doing and didn’t take action and it wasn’t until it got violent, worse with each incident, that something finally was done. Two other things with regards to that incident, one is that they were robbing to get money for drugs (gee that’s a surprise) and second, one of those in that “gang” just got busted again in Denver with everything from Heroin to mushrooms for sale…maybe if someone had spanked them harder he wouldn’t be in the trouble he is in now and looking at hard time. What a waste!
You know, I am actually glad you bought this up. Where was the Sheriff with all his “education” and “victimless” crime drug use philosophy during this period? If he or anyone had actually stepped up to the plate and done something when these kids first started getting into trouble instead of the destructive “hey drugs are cool” attitude that permeates his message and the “image” of Aspen, then you wouldn’t have had this problem to begin with. It would be something if we actually learned from our past, but some here, while they remember; they forget the reasons and the pain and hurt suffered by who knows how many victims, the families, and even the perpetrators. Another good topic for a Blog. I bet the people of this town would be surprised as to who’s kids were involved, what actually happened and what lead up to that behavior. Maybe its time someone reminds us what can go wrong in “Paradise.”
Conniff may be new to the area, but some of us have been around for some time and know more about the people and what they do in this town then you can imagine.
Children say that people are hung sometimes for speaking the truth. – Joan of Arc
Whoa,
In talking to kids from elementary school to high school, none has ever seen Braudis at the School. APD Officers; Yes! Deputy Bruce; Yes! Braudis, never. I am not saying your kids don’t know Braudis, but don’t make it out to sound like this guy hangs out working with the kids in this town cause he doesn’t.
Funny you should mention those kids from the crime spree. If you are so close to the inner circle, then you know that certain “people” knew what these kids were doing and didn’t take action and it wasn’t until it got violent, worse with each incident, that something finally was done. Two other things with regards to that incident, one is that they were robbing to get money for drugs (gee that’s a surprise) and second, one of those in that “gang” just got busted again in Denver with everything from Heroin to mushrooms for sale…maybe if someone had spanked them harder he wouldn’t be in the trouble he is in now and looking at hard time. What a waste!
You know, I am actually glad you bought this up. Where was the Sheriff with all his “education” and “victimless” crime drug use philosophy during this period? If he or anyone had actually stepped up to the plate and done something when these kids first started getting into trouble instead of the destructive “hey drugs are cool” attitude that permeates his message and the “image” of Aspen, then you wouldn’t have had this problem to begin with. It would be something if we actually learned from our past, but some here, while they remember; they forget the reasons and the pain and hurt suffered by who knows how many victims, the families, and even the perpetrators. Another good topic for a Blog. I bet the people of this town would be surprised as to who’s kids were involved, what actually happened and what lead up to that behavior. Maybe its time someone reminds us what can go wrong in “Paradise.”
Conniff may be new to the area, but some of us have been around for some time and know more about the people and what they do in this town then you can imagine.
Children say that people are hung sometimes for speaking the truth. – Joan of Arc
Stop making drugs cool? How? I mean, after the PCSD putsch.
Find and destroy all contemporary music, especially rap. Turn off all TVs. Kill the internet. A book burning sounds good. Turn away outsiders, possible carriers of the “cool” virus.
Sex and drug education will have to go, because supply creates demand, as The Con Man says.
And then! Cultural revolution, uniforms and all. Get middle schoolers to rat out mom and dad. Public flogging.
Absurd, of course.
And so are comments that demonize Aspen for it’s hip legacy. As I’ve said before, the triumphalist/absolutist domination fantasy is in the end, just plain impractical, as are all dreams of suppression.
I guess this blogger, cleaving to as much ugliness as he can pile up, doesn’t want to tell the success stories of that teen crime spree. And like a little girl with a big secret, he (or she) is busting at the seams to name names, too. Doing that would make you, what, cool?
My kids know Braudis because I made a point to introduce them.
I’m fairly sure this person will now gleefully spin my proactive approach into yet another overreaching condemnation of the department.
Amazing.
Stop making drugs cool? How? I mean, after the PCSD putsch.
Find and destroy all contemporary music, especially rap. Turn off all TVs. Kill the internet. A book burning sounds good. Turn away outsiders, possible carriers of the “cool” virus.
Sex and drug education will have to go, because supply creates demand, as The Con Man says.
And then! Cultural revolution, uniforms and all. Get middle schoolers to rat out mom and dad. Public flogging.
Absurd, of course.
And so are comments that demonize Aspen for it’s hip legacy. As I’ve said before, the triumphalist/absolutist domination fantasy is in the end, just plain impractical, as are all dreams of suppression.
I guess this blogger, cleaving to as much ugliness as he can pile up, doesn’t want to tell the success stories of that teen crime spree. And like a little girl with a big secret, he (or she) is busting at the seams to name names, too. Doing that would make you, what, cool?
My kids know Braudis because I made a point to introduce them.
I’m fairly sure this person will now gleefully spin my proactive approach into yet another overreaching condemnation of the department.
Amazing.
Pastor, you make about as much sense as an ICEE in the Artic.
“I guess this blogger, cleaving to as much ugliness as he can pile up, doesn’t want to tell the success stories of that teen crime spree.”
First, why don’t you be the good little preacher you are and enlighten us with the “success stories” of the crime spree, cause I don’t know any.
And second, you were the one who chose to bring that incident to light. I only expanded on the topic, be it not in the direction you wanted and noticed that you don’t and can’t refute any of what I wrote because it is true.
I am glad you at least had the gumption to admit that your kids were introduced to the Sheriff and it wasn’t though some kids program or his interaction with the schools (non-existent) that enabled your kids to meet him.
I don’t have secrets, what I know is common knowledge to those who know it. You know of what I speak. Why all the fear and attacking? Calling me names doesn’t help your argument, but only reinforces what we all know. That you are emotionally tied to the issue and have nothing substitive to back up what you say.
I enjoy this but you are going to have to do better then calling me a little girl to qualify what you are saying. You are with the grown-ups now. Playground antics just don’t cut it.
Pastor, you make about as much sense as an ICEE in the Artic.
“I guess this blogger, cleaving to as much ugliness as he can pile up, doesn’t want to tell the success stories of that teen crime spree.”
First, why don’t you be the good little preacher you are and enlighten us with the “success stories” of the crime spree, cause I don’t know any.
And second, you were the one who chose to bring that incident to light. I only expanded on the topic, be it not in the direction you wanted and noticed that you don’t and can’t refute any of what I wrote because it is true.
I am glad you at least had the gumption to admit that your kids were introduced to the Sheriff and it wasn’t though some kids program or his interaction with the schools (non-existent) that enabled your kids to meet him.
I don’t have secrets, what I know is common knowledge to those who know it. You know of what I speak. Why all the fear and attacking? Calling me names doesn’t help your argument, but only reinforces what we all know. That you are emotionally tied to the issue and have nothing substitive to back up what you say.
I enjoy this but you are going to have to do better then calling me a little girl to qualify what you are saying. You are with the grown-ups now. Playground antics just don’t cut it.
I won’t enlighten you or the readers of specific personal success stories that came out of the Aspen teen crime spree. It would be ungentlemanly to do that on a blog. It may be passing curiosity on your part but I feel strongly these young persons are entitled to their privacy. They and their families went through a bad patch.
Anyone with the internet could do the research if they’re so inclined.
I can tell you that the Aspen community responded with amazing vigor to the situation. Most notably they volunteered numerous hours and reached deep in their pockets to build up the Aspen Valley Ski and Snowboard Club to a world class organization. They built a clubhouse, arranged a ski lift to Highlands, hired many coaches, raised funds, filled the board, and so on. The wake up call of that sad episode was very much on their minds as they did so.
We all read about the one recidivist. You can imply that I’m gratuitously lying if you like, but I can tell you that most of the others are now doing pretty good. It’s a bitch to spent a chunk of your teen years in jail.
See you on the playground.
I won’t enlighten you or the readers of specific personal success stories that came out of the Aspen teen crime spree. It would be ungentlemanly to do that on a blog. It may be passing curiosity on your part but I feel strongly these young persons are entitled to their privacy. They and their families went through a bad patch.
Anyone with the internet could do the research if they’re so inclined.
I can tell you that the Aspen community responded with amazing vigor to the situation. Most notably they volunteered numerous hours and reached deep in their pockets to build up the Aspen Valley Ski and Snowboard Club to a world class organization. They built a clubhouse, arranged a ski lift to Highlands, hired many coaches, raised funds, filled the board, and so on. The wake up call of that sad episode was very much on their minds as they did so.
We all read about the one recidivist. You can imply that I’m gratuitously lying if you like, but I can tell you that most of the others are now doing pretty good. It’s a bitch to spent a chunk of your teen years in jail.
See you on the playground.
You know, I once read a book that talked about the roots of conflict being based in language and the understanding of such. That it was language and its misunderstanding, the attempt of ideas to words, which leads to conflict…a very interesting book to say the least.
Pastor, I think we may be trying to press home a point, though from different spectrums. I applaud what this valley is doing with regards to AVSC and other kid oriented activities. I think what you were terming “success” stories I would label “lessons learned.” Semantics I know, but no doubt it can lead to confusion.
Our youth is short enough as it is. I would hate for any kid to spend it behind bars. Many of these guys had huge red flags flying before the crime spree. Being attentive to our kids, their friends and our community is all part of the solution to identifying situations before they become real problems. This is why I would like to see the Sheriff’s department more involved with the school system and the kids in our neighborhood. They have the pulse of the community, and while they shouldn’t be taking the place of the parents, they do, as you say, carry a weight of respect and authority that I feel is important to the community and our kids. By taking a stand-offish approach to dealing with the youth of our community I think the Sheriff’s office is doing the community a dis-service. This is what I was trying to convey.
Tag!! You’re it!
You know, I once read a book that talked about the roots of conflict being based in language and the understanding of such. That it was language and its misunderstanding, the attempt of ideas to words, which leads to conflict…a very interesting book to say the least.
Pastor, I think we may be trying to press home a point, though from different spectrums. I applaud what this valley is doing with regards to AVSC and other kid oriented activities. I think what you were terming “success” stories I would label “lessons learned.” Semantics I know, but no doubt it can lead to confusion.
Our youth is short enough as it is. I would hate for any kid to spend it behind bars. Many of these guys had huge red flags flying before the crime spree. Being attentive to our kids, their friends and our community is all part of the solution to identifying situations before they become real problems. This is why I would like to see the Sheriff’s department more involved with the school system and the kids in our neighborhood. They have the pulse of the community, and while they shouldn’t be taking the place of the parents, they do, as you say, carry a weight of respect and authority that I feel is important to the community and our kids. By taking a stand-offish approach to dealing with the youth of our community I think the Sheriff’s office is doing the community a dis-service. This is what I was trying to convey.
Tag!! You’re it!
when i was a senior at aspen high a couple of kids went on a crime spree right after graduation – roughly ten years before the crime spree you guys are talkin bouts, and robbed then pistol whipped a poor lady clerk at the aspen village quickmart, then went onto california and got busted hard.
noone saw that train comin. and it’s basically forgotten.
my kid goes to aspen high and he knows quite a few sherrifs. we’re real lucky to have such a great unique, trusted sheriffs department here. any officer in the usa would give their left nut to be a deputy or cop here.
reminds me of one time about a dozen years ago when i got pulled over for speeding down by eljebell by a basalt police. the guy had his hand on his gun as he walked up to the car. just the other day i was puttin up a yardsale sign on a phonepole by the wood crick turnoff – a sheriff stopped and asked if everything was cool – yeah, thanks man, i told him.
when i was a senior at aspen high a couple of kids went on a crime spree right after graduation – roughly ten years before the crime spree you guys are talkin bouts, and robbed then pistol whipped a poor lady clerk at the aspen village quickmart, then went onto california and got busted hard.
noone saw that train comin. and it’s basically forgotten.
my kid goes to aspen high and he knows quite a few sherrifs. we’re real lucky to have such a great unique, trusted sheriffs department here. any officer in the usa would give their left nut to be a deputy or cop here.
reminds me of one time about a dozen years ago when i got pulled over for speeding down by eljebell by a basalt police. the guy had his hand on his gun as he walked up to the car. just the other day i was puttin up a yardsale sign on a phonepole by the wood crick turnoff – a sheriff stopped and asked if everything was cool – yeah, thanks man, i told him.
A6 wrote that the Sheriff’s department has a stand-offish approach to youth.
Absolutely not my experience in 25 years in Aspen. Explaining as much was a component in my last couple postings. A6 may have missed it.
I think Aspen schools are the APD’s purview, period.
I’ve seen deputies at ball games, seen them officially and unofficially talk to kids, both quite young and teens. My boy got a speeding ticket from a sheriff’s deputy. Never seen a deputy bully a kid or finger a sidearm, far from it. I take great comfort from their deliberate advocacy.
I submit (again) that leadership is key, always. Staff takes their cue from the top. Seen it a hundred times. Boss is brilliant, employees tend in that direction, and vice versa.
Braudis learned from Kienast, deputies learn from Braudis.
Con Man and others cheapen the dialogue—intentionally, I believe—when they spit out the term, “cult of personality.” Force of character is more right on. MC would like personality to have zero to do with leadership. I find it crushingly naïve to discount style and character from a leadership equation that includes efficacy.
Remember the Monty Python sketch? “… you’re not arguing, you’re contradicting!” “No I’m not!” We’re going there.
A6 wrote that the Sheriff’s department has a stand-offish approach to youth.
Absolutely not my experience in 25 years in Aspen. Explaining as much was a component in my last couple postings. A6 may have missed it.
I think Aspen schools are the APD’s purview, period.
I’ve seen deputies at ball games, seen them officially and unofficially talk to kids, both quite young and teens. My boy got a speeding ticket from a sheriff’s deputy. Never seen a deputy bully a kid or finger a sidearm, far from it. I take great comfort from their deliberate advocacy.
I submit (again) that leadership is key, always. Staff takes their cue from the top. Seen it a hundred times. Boss is brilliant, employees tend in that direction, and vice versa.
Braudis learned from Kienast, deputies learn from Braudis.
Con Man and others cheapen the dialogue—intentionally, I believe—when they spit out the term, “cult of personality.” Force of character is more right on. MC would like personality to have zero to do with leadership. I find it crushingly naïve to discount style and character from a leadership equation that includes efficacy.
Remember the Monty Python sketch? “… you’re not arguing, you’re contradicting!” “No I’m not!” We’re going there.
Pastor,
I may have missed your comments and apologize for that. I try and keep up but sometimes I do miss things.
Your opinion of “I think Aspen schools are the APD’s purview, period.” is fine, but the Aspen Schools are not in the City, they are in the County, and even if APD cares enough about our youth that they provide the officers to the school, by the Sheriff’s office not providing an officer there, to me, is not showing much in the area of “educating our youth” which is one of Braudis’s campaign platforms of his philosophy of being the Sheriff.
I do commend how your son was treated by the Deputy who stopped him for speeding. Not saying these guys are a bunch of thugs, just saying the policies of the department could use some updating and refinement.
Pastor,
I may have missed your comments and apologize for that. I try and keep up but sometimes I do miss things.
Your opinion of “I think Aspen schools are the APD’s purview, period.” is fine, but the Aspen Schools are not in the City, they are in the County, and even if APD cares enough about our youth that they provide the officers to the school, by the Sheriff’s office not providing an officer there, to me, is not showing much in the area of “educating our youth” which is one of Braudis’s campaign platforms of his philosophy of being the Sheriff.
I do commend how your son was treated by the Deputy who stopped him for speeding. Not saying these guys are a bunch of thugs, just saying the policies of the department could use some updating and refinement.
Well, okay, then.
Well, okay, then.
Con Man, let’s get this particular blog back on track and get something straight.
Your original post was about Mr. Soto-Sandoval and the shocking fact that he apparently continues to break the laws. The underlying message that the earlier bust and conviction apparently did not do much to dissuade this young man from a lawbreaking lifestyle.
You went on, my dear Con Man, to take a cheap shot at Sheriff Braudis and find fault in the fact that he was not involved in the confronting of Soto-Sandoval in the kitchen at Campo di Fiori. Why would the sheriff’s department be involved at all in a very low-key, small time operation in the Aspen City limits?
Maybe you weren’t around at the time, but there was a much bigger, federally involved, raid back in December of 2005 and the sheriff was deliberately excluded from any involvement there. you could only fault the sheriff’s department if they had been asked to assist in the event at Campo’s kitchen by the APD or ICE and refused. we all know that did not happen.
In hindsight, wouldn’t you agree that your otherwise very good original story was about one or two paragraphs too long? The story should provoke some outrage over the fact that this person thinks so little of our laws that he sneaked back into our country and apparently had no fear or qualms about returning to the very same town where he was convicted as a felon and proceeded to continue to break the law by possessing cocaine. I do not know if the evidence of actual dealing was involved in the bust at Campo’s.
How the heck is this the fault of the sheriff? The bulk of the blame should be placed on the bad actor: Mr. Soto-Sandoval. While we are at the blame game, I want to know if the management of the restaurant knew that he was an illegal alien when they hired him. Did he provide faked papers to get the job? if so, where did he get the papers?
people who have better access to the info than you or I think that the bulk of street level drug dealing takes place in the kitchens and alleys behind the restaurants in dowtown Aspen. The law enforcement agency responsible for that zone is the Aspen Police Department, not the Pitkin Sheriff. If APD decides they need the help of the sheriff in that specific area of enforcement, they could ask. to my knowledge they have not done so and thus I think your criticism of the sheriff in this instance was slightly cheap and added nothing to the story except to reveal the bias and agenda of its author: the con man.
huntercreek
Con Man, let’s get this particular blog back on track and get something straight.
Your original post was about Mr. Soto-Sandoval and the shocking fact that he apparently continues to break the laws. The underlying message that the earlier bust and conviction apparently did not do much to dissuade this young man from a lawbreaking lifestyle.
You went on, my dear Con Man, to take a cheap shot at Sheriff Braudis and find fault in the fact that he was not involved in the confronting of Soto-Sandoval in the kitchen at Campo di Fiori. Why would the sheriff’s department be involved at all in a very low-key, small time operation in the Aspen City limits?
Maybe you weren’t around at the time, but there was a much bigger, federally involved, raid back in December of 2005 and the sheriff was deliberately excluded from any involvement there. you could only fault the sheriff’s department if they had been asked to assist in the event at Campo’s kitchen by the APD or ICE and refused. we all know that did not happen.
In hindsight, wouldn’t you agree that your otherwise very good original story was about one or two paragraphs too long? The story should provoke some outrage over the fact that this person thinks so little of our laws that he sneaked back into our country and apparently had no fear or qualms about returning to the very same town where he was convicted as a felon and proceeded to continue to break the law by possessing cocaine. I do not know if the evidence of actual dealing was involved in the bust at Campo’s.
How the heck is this the fault of the sheriff? The bulk of the blame should be placed on the bad actor: Mr. Soto-Sandoval. While we are at the blame game, I want to know if the management of the restaurant knew that he was an illegal alien when they hired him. Did he provide faked papers to get the job? if so, where did he get the papers?
people who have better access to the info than you or I think that the bulk of street level drug dealing takes place in the kitchens and alleys behind the restaurants in dowtown Aspen. The law enforcement agency responsible for that zone is the Aspen Police Department, not the Pitkin Sheriff. If APD decides they need the help of the sheriff in that specific area of enforcement, they could ask. to my knowledge they have not done so and thus I think your criticism of the sheriff in this instance was slightly cheap and added nothing to the story except to reveal the bias and agenda of its author: the con man.
huntercreek
no posts in over a week means this particular line of bloggery is dead. please remove to a place of rest and tranquility.
no posts in over a week means this particular line of bloggery is dead. please remove to a place of rest and tranquility.
Dead? Far from it my friend. A day or two ago the local papers finally reported the guy busted for coke was sent away for two years of hard time. Before we brought it up no one had mentioned anything about the bust at Campo.
If you call that dead you must be a Deadhead.
Cheers, Con Man!
Dead? Far from it my friend. A day or two ago the local papers finally reported the guy busted for coke was sent away for two years of hard time. Before we brought it up no one had mentioned anything about the bust at Campo.
If you call that dead you must be a Deadhead.
Cheers, Con Man!
Ok, we’ll kick this horse a while and see if it’s really dead.
I think the sentencing was only this past week and the papers reported it the next day. It will be interesting to hear about when this kid comes back to Aspen yet again from his home country and where he lands a job next time. shame on Campo for hiring an illegal alien.
hunterC
Ok, we’ll kick this horse a while and see if it’s really dead.
I think the sentencing was only this past week and the papers reported it the next day. It will be interesting to hear about when this kid comes back to Aspen yet again from his home country and where he lands a job next time. shame on Campo for hiring an illegal alien.
hunterC
yup, it’s dead.
hunterC
yup, it’s dead.
hunterC