I have a friend who comes from a military family. His father was USMC, he was USMC and his sons followed the familiar and familial path. They joined the Marines. Back in 2003, we discussed their impending decision. He felt powerless to stop them.
I said to him some wars must be fought, if only for self preservation such as WW2 and probably Korea. Going into Afghanistan was necessary for different reasons — it was the correct thing to do. The problem, we both agreed, was that this monstrous administration was going to go after Saddam Hussein instead of Osama Bin Laden. I asked him to do everything he could to stop his sons from joining now. This president, like most of the GOP in congress, has no kids over there. This president, who not so deftly avoided Viet Nam through the National Guard, could easily be brave with other peoples loved ones. Of course, todays National Guard isn’t the National Guard of the sixties, seventies and Viet Nam. They are frontline troops.
One of my friends sons was killed, a week before the other was sent — to Iraq. It seems as though, with the recent elections, we will thankfully be withdrawing from something we can do nothing about — changing the hearts and minds of those who hate each other even more than they hate us. That is the nature of civil war, something completely uncivil. My friends son died in this crap, a quagmire (an Arabic-Anglo word).
When we leave, the Shiia will sweep the Sunni out of the Southern areas including the Shaat al Arab and most likely Baghdad. They will organize like Hizbollah, in Lebanon and Palestinian areas, with Iran as their paymaster. Iran is playing this opportunity, provided by this administration, like a Stradivarious violin. China is quietly waiting for this realignment.
My friend did fight for this country, in operation Desert Storm. While I am highly suspicious of the rationale for that war (Neil Bush was indicted the day before Iraq invaded Kuwait, for the Silverado Savings and loan bankruptcy), it is understandable. My friends son died for this presidents political agenda, not fighting for this country, as he believed. Needless to say, my friend is nothing short of furiously pissed off. His sons were used, and he doesn’t like it. Niether do I.
If I had a wish on this, it would be that those cheerleading for this crap, were on the frontlines. That would expose them for what they are — gutless. As I said, my friend is not happy with this situation. Hopefully, Americans will actually bother to think about the next presidents agenda if it includes war.
hhhhmmmmmmm… last I checked, we have an all volunteer armed service in this nation. The day will soon be here when not one single person in our armed services can complain that they did not think that combat and death were possible when they enlisted or accepted a commision in the armed services.
The pipe dream of having all those who cheerlead for this being on the frontlines will never happen. but now that we are more than 5 years removed from 9-11, it will be the case that the wonderful youngsters in the all-volunteer Army, Navy, etc. will be able to stand up and proclaim: “yes, I knew what was involved in my decision to enlist and I accept my duty and will carry out my assignment with honor, courage and enthusiasm.” The argument of the troops being unwitting pawns will then go to where it belongs: the trash heap.
your argument that the “cheerleaders” must enlist and fight is crap. first, most of us are past the age to serve. the other side to that argument would suggest that anyone who vehemently opposes the war must also enlist in order to place himself in a postion to stop the war first hand. If we found the ranks suddenly filled with uniformed soldiers who refused en masse to fight, that would certainly thwart the war effort, wouldn’t it? last I checked, the anti-war folks are in this country living their lives just as much as the “cheerleaders” who support our troops.
No, anyone with an opinion on the war is free to remain stateside and voice their opinion. Vietnam was different as there was a draft and those who did not have college deferments were subject to being sent to Viet Nam against their will.
when the reenlistment numbers fall sharply, then I’ll listen to the argument that the military personnel are truly pissed like you and your friend.
and don’t give me that argument that people go into the military because there are no jobs to be had. Unemployment is as low as its been in recent decades and anyone fit enough to make it into the military can find a job outside of militray service if they truly are adverse to being a soldier.
I reject your argument that I cannot be a “cheerleader” for the war effort and for our fine troops without trying to enlist myself. I am too old and they would not take me. I have a right to protest, lobby and vote the same as anyone.
I will submit that our generals and the commander in chief did not do an admirable job in assessing what post-Saddam Iraq would look like. very big mistakes have been made and I guess that happens in all wars.
Vietnam was a tragedy for this country in just about every way. we were not able to discuss that war for decades. it left us divided and suspicious of the notion that a war should be micro-managed out of the oval office. for good reason.
under our Constitution, the legislative branch [NOT the executive] has the exclusive power to declare war and the President is the commander in chief. we let that concept drift to the point where it is gone, gone gone.
those are my thoughts.
Hunter C
hhhhmmmmmmm… last I checked, we have an all volunteer armed service in this nation. The day will soon be here when not one single person in our armed services can complain that they did not think that combat and death were possible when they enlisted or accepted a commision in the armed services.
The pipe dream of having all those who cheerlead for this being on the frontlines will never happen. but now that we are more than 5 years removed from 9-11, it will be the case that the wonderful youngsters in the all-volunteer Army, Navy, etc. will be able to stand up and proclaim: “yes, I knew what was involved in my decision to enlist and I accept my duty and will carry out my assignment with honor, courage and enthusiasm.” The argument of the troops being unwitting pawns will then go to where it belongs: the trash heap.
your argument that the “cheerleaders” must enlist and fight is crap. first, most of us are past the age to serve. the other side to that argument would suggest that anyone who vehemently opposes the war must also enlist in order to place himself in a postion to stop the war first hand. If we found the ranks suddenly filled with uniformed soldiers who refused en masse to fight, that would certainly thwart the war effort, wouldn’t it? last I checked, the anti-war folks are in this country living their lives just as much as the “cheerleaders” who support our troops.
No, anyone with an opinion on the war is free to remain stateside and voice their opinion. Vietnam was different as there was a draft and those who did not have college deferments were subject to being sent to Viet Nam against their will.
when the reenlistment numbers fall sharply, then I’ll listen to the argument that the military personnel are truly pissed like you and your friend.
and don’t give me that argument that people go into the military because there are no jobs to be had. Unemployment is as low as its been in recent decades and anyone fit enough to make it into the military can find a job outside of militray service if they truly are adverse to being a soldier.
I reject your argument that I cannot be a “cheerleader” for the war effort and for our fine troops without trying to enlist myself. I am too old and they would not take me. I have a right to protest, lobby and vote the same as anyone.
I will submit that our generals and the commander in chief did not do an admirable job in assessing what post-Saddam Iraq would look like. very big mistakes have been made and I guess that happens in all wars.
Vietnam was a tragedy for this country in just about every way. we were not able to discuss that war for decades. it left us divided and suspicious of the notion that a war should be micro-managed out of the oval office. for good reason.
under our Constitution, the legislative branch [NOT the executive] has the exclusive power to declare war and the President is the commander in chief. we let that concept drift to the point where it is gone, gone gone.
those are my thoughts.
Hunter C
Hunter,
I do appreciate your comments. There is no reference in my post about the economy, or whether the military is voluntary or not. That congress did not declare war and this excursion is an enablement of an executive order, is of little importance.
There is only one root to all the problems, with the situation in Iraq. There is no other points or relevance; The United States didn’t belong there for the reasons stated by the president — period. Therefore, if 3000 Amercan deaths are not enough of a problem for you, and you don’t mind cheering as though it were a harmless football game instead, then there is no possibility of common agreement, in general.
This is one of the worst actions decided upon, in national history. That you want to cheer while our soldiers are dying in the midst of a civil war, leaves me begging for language to describe my absolute disgust.
I am not suggesting that you actually support and care for the well being of the troops any more than their ability to carry out the Presidents personal agenda. You simply support the president, without qualification.
Hunter,
I do appreciate your comments. There is no reference in my post about the economy, or whether the military is voluntary or not. That congress did not declare war and this excursion is an enablement of an executive order, is of little importance.
There is only one root to all the problems, with the situation in Iraq. There is no other points or relevance; The United States didn’t belong there for the reasons stated by the president — period. Therefore, if 3000 Amercan deaths are not enough of a problem for you, and you don’t mind cheering as though it were a harmless football game instead, then there is no possibility of common agreement, in general.
This is one of the worst actions decided upon, in national history. That you want to cheer while our soldiers are dying in the midst of a civil war, leaves me begging for language to describe my absolute disgust.
I am not suggesting that you actually support and care for the well being of the troops any more than their ability to carry out the Presidents personal agenda. You simply support the president, without qualification.
While even one death of an American troop or anyone for that matter is a tragedy for that family, the facts of life as a soldier are that you could be sent into harms way and be killed. As pointed out, it is a volunteer army, therefore, if you want to reduce your chances of dying in an armed conflict, get a job at pizza hut, not in the Army. As a soldier, you don’t get to pick your wars, that’s somebody else’s job.
After four years of this conflict, a death toll of just over 3k is the lowest of any conflict we have ever been involved in. During WW2, in a span of around four years we suffered 382,600 troops killed. Because of better equipment, better medical care, we have been able to keep the number of casualties at a level no other army in the world can sustain. While the low death rate cannot comfort the loved ones of those who died in Iraq, it has spared other families from hearing the same, sad knock on the door.
Would your friend be any less pissed off if his son were killed by a drunk driver? I doubt it. One should never have to bury a child, and I am saddened by his loss. However, his son chose to be in this army, it was his choice, his responsibly, and I don’t think that his farther should cheapen his sacrifice by blaming that death on the government.
While even one death of an American troop or anyone for that matter is a tragedy for that family, the facts of life as a soldier are that you could be sent into harms way and be killed. As pointed out, it is a volunteer army, therefore, if you want to reduce your chances of dying in an armed conflict, get a job at pizza hut, not in the Army. As a soldier, you don’t get to pick your wars, that’s somebody else’s job.
After four years of this conflict, a death toll of just over 3k is the lowest of any conflict we have ever been involved in. During WW2, in a span of around four years we suffered 382,600 troops killed. Because of better equipment, better medical care, we have been able to keep the number of casualties at a level no other army in the world can sustain. While the low death rate cannot comfort the loved ones of those who died in Iraq, it has spared other families from hearing the same, sad knock on the door.
Would your friend be any less pissed off if his son were killed by a drunk driver? I doubt it. One should never have to bury a child, and I am saddened by his loss. However, his son chose to be in this army, it was his choice, his responsibly, and I don’t think that his farther should cheapen his sacrifice by blaming that death on the government.
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Very well said Alpha. And Very well said Ed Troy.
(I’m still buying, Ed, fyi….)
Very well said Alpha. And Very well said Ed Troy.
(I’m still buying, Ed, fyi….)