I recently wrote the following letter to the editors of three local newspapers about the Day of Action Against Israeli Occupation, which is today (June 11);
“To protest the 40th anniversary of Israel’s illegal occupation of the Palestinian territories, people around the world are joining together June 10-11 to proclaim, “The World Says No to Israeli Occupation.”
A majority of Israelis and Palestinians want a two-state solution; an independent, viable Palestinian state and a secure Israel. There is no way to militarily achieve peace between Israel and Palestine. Security for Israel will come only from a peace agreement that deals fairly with the Palestinians.
We in the U.S. claim to oppose apartheid and injustice, but our government provides Israel with military and economic support to sustain and expand control of the occupied territories, therefore we Americans are accessories to Israel’s crimes and complicit in the human rights abuses inflicted on innocent Palestinian civilians.
There is no discussion about this among either Democrats or Republicans, in part because American Israel Public Affairs Committee and other pro-Israel lobbies accuse those who criticize Israel’s policies of anti-Semitism. As responsible citizens, we must insist that our policymakers have the courage to address this grave situation.
Call or write your representatives, and ask them to support the Geneva Accord, promoting a just peace based on equality, human rights and international law, and the full implementation of all relevant U.N. resolutions.
U.S. security is also at issue. By Osama bin Laden’s own admission, the 9/11 attack was due in part to Arab anger over U.S. support of Israel.
Therefore, we must demand that all presidential candidates prove their dedication to achieve national security by stating that Israel must comply with International Law as a requirement to receive economic support, and pledge to bring about negotiations to end the Israeli occupation and produce a free and secure Palestinian state.”
…And of course I have been receiving the usual responses from the usual people in the letters to the editor; anti-Semitism, hatred of Israel, lies, distortions, blah, blah, blah…But there has been an interesting development. On the online version of the Aspen Times there is a comments section, it’s sort of like a blog. There have been several comments against me and some supporting me. This is a unique way to carry on a conversation that extends the letters beyond their initial publication.
On a related note, you might have read that Norman Finkelstein, a university professor has been denied tenure, presumably based on his outspoken criticism of Israel for which he has been labeled, what else; anti-Semitic. Grassroots TV will be airing his lecture; “Israel and Palestine: Misusing Anti-Semitism and Abusing History,” Tuesday, June 12th, at 10 AM, Friday, June 15th, at 12:30 AM and Saturday, June 16th, at 3:30 PM.
Speaking about Israel/Palestine has always been an uphill battle, but it’s one I believe worth fighting, regardless of the consequences to one’s reputation or career. Obviously Finkelstein agrees.
Following World War II, the British announced their intention to withdraw from the British mandate of Palestine. The United Nations General Assembly proposed the partition of Palestine into two states, an Arab state and a Jewish state, with the city of Jerusalem to be under the direct administration of the United Nations. While most Jews in Palestine accepted the proposal, most of the Arabs in Palestine rejected it.
Violence between Arab and Jewish communities erupted almost immediately. Toward the end of the British mandate, the Jews planned to declare a separate state, a development the Arabs were determined to prevent. On May 14, 1948, the last British forces withdrew from Palestine, and the Jews, led by David Ben-Gurion, declared the creation of the State of Israel, in accordance with the 1947 UN Partition Plan. Arab countries refused to recognize the State of Israel, and attacked that same day, thus igniting the 1948 Arab-Israeli War. Israel prevailed, and established borders which remained in place until the 1967 Six Day War.
And since that time, the Palestinians have been crying ever since. Anyone ever wonder why the Palestinians are second class citizens even in other Arab countries? No one can stand them, not even their Arab brothers. All they do is whine about how bad their situation is, engage in constant infighting among themselves, and their leaders laugh all the way to the bank as people from around the world send money to help the poor Palestinians.
I find it amusing that people seem to want to take up the cry of the Palestinians who can’t even get their own act together to work together to come up with any agreeable solution with Israel or the rest of the world to better their situation.
Israel is not an occupational force, no more then any other country that has acquired land and territories through war or other means. If the Palestinians want the land, then take it…otherwise, stop whining and get on with your lives. I
ts pathetic, and so are all these do gooders sticking their nose into something they know nothing about. Remember Apartheid? Because the world stuck its nose into something it knew nothing about, South Africa has gone from being a First World Nation to one of the worst Third World Nations on the Planet. Unemployment is through the roof, inflation is uncontrolled, they now have to import just about everything, crime is some of the worst in the world, there is not effective government, judicial system or structure. Nice going…boy we sure did make things better there.
Following World War II, the British announced their intention to withdraw from the British mandate of Palestine. The United Nations General Assembly proposed the partition of Palestine into two states, an Arab state and a Jewish state, with the city of Jerusalem to be under the direct administration of the United Nations. While most Jews in Palestine accepted the proposal, most of the Arabs in Palestine rejected it.
Violence between Arab and Jewish communities erupted almost immediately. Toward the end of the British mandate, the Jews planned to declare a separate state, a development the Arabs were determined to prevent. On May 14, 1948, the last British forces withdrew from Palestine, and the Jews, led by David Ben-Gurion, declared the creation of the State of Israel, in accordance with the 1947 UN Partition Plan. Arab countries refused to recognize the State of Israel, and attacked that same day, thus igniting the 1948 Arab-Israeli War. Israel prevailed, and established borders which remained in place until the 1967 Six Day War.
And since that time, the Palestinians have been crying ever since. Anyone ever wonder why the Palestinians are second class citizens even in other Arab countries? No one can stand them, not even their Arab brothers. All they do is whine about how bad their situation is, engage in constant infighting among themselves, and their leaders laugh all the way to the bank as people from around the world send money to help the poor Palestinians.
I find it amusing that people seem to want to take up the cry of the Palestinians who can’t even get their own act together to work together to come up with any agreeable solution with Israel or the rest of the world to better their situation.
Israel is not an occupational force, no more then any other country that has acquired land and territories through war or other means. If the Palestinians want the land, then take it…otherwise, stop whining and get on with your lives. I
ts pathetic, and so are all these do gooders sticking their nose into something they know nothing about. Remember Apartheid? Because the world stuck its nose into something it knew nothing about, South Africa has gone from being a First World Nation to one of the worst Third World Nations on the Planet. Unemployment is through the roof, inflation is uncontrolled, they now have to import just about everything, crime is some of the worst in the world, there is not effective government, judicial system or structure. Nice going…boy we sure did make things better there.
Just like many in the community, you attribute to me some desire to help the poor suffering Palestinians because I’m some sort of bleeding heart. Not true. If it weren’t for 9/11 I would never have written a single letter about Israel/Palestine. I don’t care what their history is, I don’t care if they’re hated by neighboring Arabs or can’t get along with each other. All I care about is U.S. support, my tax dollars, my national identity being tied into the apartheid and yes…occupation, that’s what it is; officially, and undeniably, an illegal occupation, causing Islamic Extremists (oh ok Michael…jihadists) to attack us.
There are terrible inhumane unjust policies and practices all over the world, but unless they affect me personally, I could care less. I’m selfish like that. I believe everyone on the planet should work out their own problems. I only want the U.S. to help broker peace between Israel/Palestine to thwart the recruitment of “jihadists.”
Tell me alpha6, do you see any parallels between the Israel/Palestinian issue and the U.S. treatment of the Native American population? I’d be interested in hearing you explore that perspective.
Just like many in the community, you attribute to me some desire to help the poor suffering Palestinians because I’m some sort of bleeding heart. Not true. If it weren’t for 9/11 I would never have written a single letter about Israel/Palestine. I don’t care what their history is, I don’t care if they’re hated by neighboring Arabs or can’t get along with each other. All I care about is U.S. support, my tax dollars, my national identity being tied into the apartheid and yes…occupation, that’s what it is; officially, and undeniably, an illegal occupation, causing Islamic Extremists (oh ok Michael…jihadists) to attack us.
There are terrible inhumane unjust policies and practices all over the world, but unless they affect me personally, I could care less. I’m selfish like that. I believe everyone on the planet should work out their own problems. I only want the U.S. to help broker peace between Israel/Palestine to thwart the recruitment of “jihadists.”
Tell me alpha6, do you see any parallels between the Israel/Palestinian issue and the U.S. treatment of the Native American population? I’d be interested in hearing you explore that perspective.
“do you see any parallels between the Israel/Palestinian issue and the U.S. treatment of the Native American population?”
No, not at all. I view the two as completely different. I have my own take on our history and Native Americans, and what is happening in Palestine is completely different. What you don’t want to accept is that Palestine had the opportunity to have it’s own country when the British pulled out in 1948, along side Israel but refused to recognize Israels right to exist. They then attempted to destroy the new Israeli nation by force and lost. What I don’t hear you taking about is how during this same time, Syria and Jordan then took and occupied the parts of Palestine that Israel had left in accordance with the UN resolution to the Palestinians. In fact, Palestinians were not even allowed to take on Syrian or Jordanian citizenship when those areas were taken. It was only after the Six day war, when Israel was attacked by its Arab neighbors again, unprovoked, that they extended their borders to create a safe zone from those wacky Arabs who to this day refuse to recognize Israel as a nation.
If you are so concerned about America’s use of tax dollars in Israel, what about our use of them in other places like China, South America (billions spent on “war on drugs” in Colombia alone) Puerto Rico and the billions we drop into that hole…talk about waste, and I could go on and on.
Two things you should understand, one is that blaming 9/11 attacks by radical Islamic terrorists on our governmental polices is like blaming a rape victim for being raped because she dressed sexy. Second, you being an intelligent person are trying to “make sense” and give a logical reason why something like 9/11 happened. Truth is, they just want to destroy you and everything about you…no other reason. It’s like that wack job at VT, everyone wants to find a reason this poor kid killed all these people for no reason. The sad part, there was no “reason” he was just a sicko, filled with hate, just like the radical Islamics.
“do you see any parallels between the Israel/Palestinian issue and the U.S. treatment of the Native American population?”
No, not at all. I view the two as completely different. I have my own take on our history and Native Americans, and what is happening in Palestine is completely different. What you don’t want to accept is that Palestine had the opportunity to have it’s own country when the British pulled out in 1948, along side Israel but refused to recognize Israels right to exist. They then attempted to destroy the new Israeli nation by force and lost. What I don’t hear you taking about is how during this same time, Syria and Jordan then took and occupied the parts of Palestine that Israel had left in accordance with the UN resolution to the Palestinians. In fact, Palestinians were not even allowed to take on Syrian or Jordanian citizenship when those areas were taken. It was only after the Six day war, when Israel was attacked by its Arab neighbors again, unprovoked, that they extended their borders to create a safe zone from those wacky Arabs who to this day refuse to recognize Israel as a nation.
If you are so concerned about America’s use of tax dollars in Israel, what about our use of them in other places like China, South America (billions spent on “war on drugs” in Colombia alone) Puerto Rico and the billions we drop into that hole…talk about waste, and I could go on and on.
Two things you should understand, one is that blaming 9/11 attacks by radical Islamic terrorists on our governmental polices is like blaming a rape victim for being raped because she dressed sexy. Second, you being an intelligent person are trying to “make sense” and give a logical reason why something like 9/11 happened. Truth is, they just want to destroy you and everything about you…no other reason. It’s like that wack job at VT, everyone wants to find a reason this poor kid killed all these people for no reason. The sad part, there was no “reason” he was just a sicko, filled with hate, just like the radical Islamics.
Israel receives the largest amount of US foreign aid and has for many years. We have been giving them aid since 1948. They have a successful economy and unlike the US, last summer Thomas Friedman reported they had a budget surplus. As part of a 10 year agreement with Israel, which ends next year, the US will be giving Israel $ 2.4 billion in military aid. Over the last several years, including loan guarantees, we have given Israel approximately $ 5 billion per year. When Israel bombed Lebanon last year they request we pay for it. They requested we pay for the up to $200,000 per settler they gave to the illegal Israeli settlers who had to leave Gaza in Aug. 2005.
Alpha 6 is misinformed about the Palestinian situation in 1948. Last year, I met several hard working Palestinians in Jordan and Syria. They all told the same story. Their parents were told by British soldiers to leave for a short time. They have never been allowed to return. Including those who had to leave after the 1967 war, there are approximately 7 million Palestinian refugees living in countries neighboring Israel. UN resolutions have called for settling their Right of Return. As the Jordan King pointed out to a joint session of Congress earlier this year, the Israel-Palestinian situation is the biggest reason for unrest in the Middle East. Jordan is the 5th largest recepient of US.
60-65 % of the Jordanian population, of just under 6 million people, is of Palestinian origin. My information comes from my visit to the US Embassy in Jordan, talking to employed well educated people of Palestinian origin in Jordan and Syria and the Jordanian Ambassador to the US.
Israel with a population of approximatelt 5 million people fears losing control if they allow the Palestinians to returns. In most cases, the Palestinians have intergrated into their new country and would not return, but want their right of return aknowledged.
Israel preemptively attacked Egypt in June of 1967 and and Jordan and Syria supported Egypt in the 6 day war. Israel seized the West Bank and East Jerusalem from Jordan, the Golan Heights from Syria and the Sinai Peninsula from Egypt. The Jordan King gave up claims to the areas taken from Jordan for peace. Several Jordanians said this decision was unpopular among Jordanians.
Israel receives the largest amount of US foreign aid and has for many years. We have been giving them aid since 1948. They have a successful economy and unlike the US, last summer Thomas Friedman reported they had a budget surplus. As part of a 10 year agreement with Israel, which ends next year, the US will be giving Israel $ 2.4 billion in military aid. Over the last several years, including loan guarantees, we have given Israel approximately $ 5 billion per year. When Israel bombed Lebanon last year they request we pay for it. They requested we pay for the up to $200,000 per settler they gave to the illegal Israeli settlers who had to leave Gaza in Aug. 2005.
Alpha 6 is misinformed about the Palestinian situation in 1948. Last year, I met several hard working Palestinians in Jordan and Syria. They all told the same story. Their parents were told by British soldiers to leave for a short time. They have never been allowed to return. Including those who had to leave after the 1967 war, there are approximately 7 million Palestinian refugees living in countries neighboring Israel. UN resolutions have called for settling their Right of Return. As the Jordan King pointed out to a joint session of Congress earlier this year, the Israel-Palestinian situation is the biggest reason for unrest in the Middle East. Jordan is the 5th largest recepient of US.
60-65 % of the Jordanian population, of just under 6 million people, is of Palestinian origin. My information comes from my visit to the US Embassy in Jordan, talking to employed well educated people of Palestinian origin in Jordan and Syria and the Jordanian Ambassador to the US.
Israel with a population of approximatelt 5 million people fears losing control if they allow the Palestinians to returns. In most cases, the Palestinians have intergrated into their new country and would not return, but want their right of return aknowledged.
Israel preemptively attacked Egypt in June of 1967 and and Jordan and Syria supported Egypt in the 6 day war. Israel seized the West Bank and East Jerusalem from Jordan, the Golan Heights from Syria and the Sinai Peninsula from Egypt. The Jordan King gave up claims to the areas taken from Jordan for peace. Several Jordanians said this decision was unpopular among Jordanians.
Cathy,
Here are the facts surrounding the six day war.
In the months before June 1967, Egypt expelled the United Nations Emergency Force from the Sinai Peninsula, increased its military activity near the border, blockaded the Straits of Tiran to Israeli ships, and called for unified Arab action against Israel. In June 1967, Israel launched a pre-emptive attack on Egypt’s airforce fearing an imminent invasion by Egypt.[1] Jordan then attacked western Jerusalem and Netanya.[2][3] At the war’s end, Israel had gained control of eastern Jerusalem, the Gaza Strip, the Sinai Peninsula, the West Bank, and the Golan Heights. The results of the war affect the geopolitics of the region to this day.
I am more informed about the situation they you might think, and it doesn’t come from being duped by some disgruntled refugees.
Israel is not the only country in the middle east that that receives aid from the US, as a matter of fact, the ARAB countries receive much more collectively in aid then Israel. As an example, The US has provided Egypt with $1.3 billion a year in military aid since 1979, and an average of $815 million a year in economic assistance. All told, Egypt has received over $50 billion in US largesse since 1975.
Cathy,
Here are the facts surrounding the six day war.
In the months before June 1967, Egypt expelled the United Nations Emergency Force from the Sinai Peninsula, increased its military activity near the border, blockaded the Straits of Tiran to Israeli ships, and called for unified Arab action against Israel. In June 1967, Israel launched a pre-emptive attack on Egypt’s airforce fearing an imminent invasion by Egypt.[1] Jordan then attacked western Jerusalem and Netanya.[2][3] At the war’s end, Israel had gained control of eastern Jerusalem, the Gaza Strip, the Sinai Peninsula, the West Bank, and the Golan Heights. The results of the war affect the geopolitics of the region to this day.
I am more informed about the situation they you might think, and it doesn’t come from being duped by some disgruntled refugees.
Israel is not the only country in the middle east that that receives aid from the US, as a matter of fact, the ARAB countries receive much more collectively in aid then Israel. As an example, The US has provided Egypt with $1.3 billion a year in military aid since 1979, and an average of $815 million a year in economic assistance. All told, Egypt has received over $50 billion in US largesse since 1975.
And…in todays news….
GAZA CITY, Gaza Strip – Hamas gunmen attacked the headquarters of
Fatah-allied forces in northern Gaza with mortars and grenades Tuesday and captured several smaller positions in what Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas of Fatah alleged was a coup attempt by the Islamic militants.
Whole story here: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070612/ap_on_re_mi_ea/israel_palestinians
You expect these savages to come up with any kind of agreement with Israel? They are too busy knocking each other off. But, I am sure the liberal bleeding hearts who have taken the “Palestinian cause” up as the purpose in their life will try and blame Israel for this infighting.
And…in todays news….
GAZA CITY, Gaza Strip – Hamas gunmen attacked the headquarters of
Fatah-allied forces in northern Gaza with mortars and grenades Tuesday and captured several smaller positions in what Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas of Fatah alleged was a coup attempt by the Islamic militants.
Whole story here: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070612/ap_on_re_mi_ea/israel_palestinians
You expect these savages to come up with any kind of agreement with Israel? They are too busy knocking each other off. But, I am sure the liberal bleeding hearts who have taken the “Palestinian cause” up as the purpose in their life will try and blame Israel for this infighting.
[If you are so concerned about America's use of tax dollars in Israel, what about our use of them in other places like China, South America (billions spent on "war on drugs" in Colombia alone) Puerto Rico and the billions we drop into that hole...talk about waste, and I could go on and on.]
Again, you misunderstand me. I’m not concerned with the tax dollars we waste. I’m concerned about the money being allocated for apartheid policies, illegal land appropriation, barrier walls, bulldozers and weapons used in the killing of civilians.
Osama bin Laden didn’t cite US policy in support of China, or the drug war in South America as the reason for 9/11. He did cite Israel. I know he is a fanatic that will never recognize the right of Israel to exist, but the suicide bombers and terrorists targeting Israeli and US civilians are being recruited when people like bin Laden incite their anger and sense of justice over Israel.
For instance, the leader of Fatah al Islam which is the group that the Lebanese army has been fighting, is a Palestinian refugee. He and his family were kicked out of Palestine and never allowed to return. The area in Lebanon where the fighting has been occurring is a Palestinian refugee camp. Neither Fatah al Islam nor the refugee camp would exist if not for Israel’s actions and policies.
The children growing up today in occupied Palestine, in poverty and hardship, with their parents facing constant challenges to survive and no doubt complaining loudly about it, are the terrorists of tomorrow. Those children aren’t just naturally prone to hatred of Jews or America, they are learning it from their circumstances and the comments the adults make.
The Native Americans who fought the US army and attacked civilians didn’t “hate us for our freedom,” they were fighting an occupation and oppression. They were terrorists, insurgents, and with good cause, just as the Palestinians are.
[If you are so concerned about America's use of tax dollars in Israel, what about our use of them in other places like China, South America (billions spent on "war on drugs" in Colombia alone) Puerto Rico and the billions we drop into that hole...talk about waste, and I could go on and on.]
Again, you misunderstand me. I’m not concerned with the tax dollars we waste. I’m concerned about the money being allocated for apartheid policies, illegal land appropriation, barrier walls, bulldozers and weapons used in the killing of civilians.
Osama bin Laden didn’t cite US policy in support of China, or the drug war in South America as the reason for 9/11. He did cite Israel. I know he is a fanatic that will never recognize the right of Israel to exist, but the suicide bombers and terrorists targeting Israeli and US civilians are being recruited when people like bin Laden incite their anger and sense of justice over Israel.
For instance, the leader of Fatah al Islam which is the group that the Lebanese army has been fighting, is a Palestinian refugee. He and his family were kicked out of Palestine and never allowed to return. The area in Lebanon where the fighting has been occurring is a Palestinian refugee camp. Neither Fatah al Islam nor the refugee camp would exist if not for Israel’s actions and policies.
The children growing up today in occupied Palestine, in poverty and hardship, with their parents facing constant challenges to survive and no doubt complaining loudly about it, are the terrorists of tomorrow. Those children aren’t just naturally prone to hatred of Jews or America, they are learning it from their circumstances and the comments the adults make.
The Native Americans who fought the US army and attacked civilians didn’t “hate us for our freedom,” they were fighting an occupation and oppression. They were terrorists, insurgents, and with good cause, just as the Palestinians are.
[Those [Palestinian] children aren’t just naturally prone to hatred of Jews or America, they are learning it from their circumstances and the comments the adults make.]
You are right. Hatred is not central to human nature, it is taught, in the same way you teach a child to handle a semi-automatic pistol…
And if that’s not a strong enough alloy, there’s always the “Children’s Club,” a “Sesame Street”-like program for Palestinian youth, ages 4 to 10:
“In the Palestinian case, what we see is the cynical use of children, who are exposed to a state-run ideology that pushes them to their death, in the name of Palestinian nationalism,” she [Dr. Meyrav Wurmser] says. “Children are taught to idealize death, to view it as a positive. In many cases, they are told that death is not death at all, but rather the beginning of a new life.”
~Jon E. Dougherty and David Kupelian, “Children of the Jihad: Palestinian kids raised for war” Friday, Nov 3, 2000
I mentioned in another thread that I don’t want my children knowing how to start a fire for obviously practicable reasons, so I find teaching children to idealize death, revenge, and mass murder not only anathema, but also by definition criminal in all but a handful of theocratic systems…
Cheers,
[Those [Palestinian] children aren’t just naturally prone to hatred of Jews or America, they are learning it from their circumstances and the comments the adults make.]
You are right. Hatred is not central to human nature, it is taught, in the same way you teach a child to handle a semi-automatic pistol…
And if that’s not a strong enough alloy, there’s always the “Children’s Club,” a “Sesame Street”-like program for Palestinian youth, ages 4 to 10:
“In the Palestinian case, what we see is the cynical use of children, who are exposed to a state-run ideology that pushes them to their death, in the name of Palestinian nationalism,” she [Dr. Meyrav Wurmser] says. “Children are taught to idealize death, to view it as a positive. In many cases, they are told that death is not death at all, but rather the beginning of a new life.”
~Jon E. Dougherty and David Kupelian, “Children of the Jihad: Palestinian kids raised for war” Friday, Nov 3, 2000
I mentioned in another thread that I don’t want my children knowing how to start a fire for obviously practicable reasons, so I find teaching children to idealize death, revenge, and mass murder not only anathema, but also by definition criminal in all but a handful of theocratic systems…
Cheers,
While I’m on the subject of certain theocratic proclivities, you’ll be delighted to know that progress is being made for women in the Egyptian workplace.
While it cost him his job Al-Azhar University, Ezzat Attiya issued a fatwa that offered a way to circumvent the Islamic rule that forbids men and women from being alone together in the work environment.
How?
A woman simply needs to let her co-worker breast feed from her five times.
No s**t:
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1178708655924&pagename=JPost/JPArticle/ShowFull
Apparently this establishes a maternal bond between the woman and her male co-worker and satisfies a condition under which a man and woman can be alone together.
Cheers,
While I’m on the subject of certain theocratic proclivities, you’ll be delighted to know that progress is being made for women in the Egyptian workplace.
While it cost him his job Al-Azhar University, Ezzat Attiya issued a fatwa that offered a way to circumvent the Islamic rule that forbids men and women from being alone together in the work environment.
How?
A woman simply needs to let her co-worker breast feed from her five times.
No s**t:
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1178708655924&pagename=JPost/JPArticle/ShowFull
Apparently this establishes a maternal bond between the woman and her male co-worker and satisfies a condition under which a man and woman can be alone together.
Cheers,
Oh come on! Is that for real? That sounds like some male fantasy from Penthouse.
So, imagine if Israel took away the fuel for the Palestinian’s fire. If there were some sort of agreement that allowed for a cohesive Palestinian state, sharing of Jerusalem, compensation for lost property, a grant of return for refugees (whether or not they chose to do so). What then would they teach the children? What reason would they give for martyrdom?
I’m not saying everything would be peachy keen right away. Obviously the Palestinians have a lot of internal problems, and you’ve got to remember that fifty years of fuel can make a fire burn for a long time. But for the sake of our children’s children, Israeli, Palestinian, American, shouldn’t we start the process? If a peace agreement was reached in the next five years, then fifty years from now there would be no “Palestinian problem.”
And besides, what the hell could it hurt? What’s the worst that could happen? Israel can defend itself. There is no chance that the Jews would be pushed into the sea if the Palestinians had their own country. Eh?
Oh come on! Is that for real? That sounds like some male fantasy from Penthouse.
So, imagine if Israel took away the fuel for the Palestinian’s fire. If there were some sort of agreement that allowed for a cohesive Palestinian state, sharing of Jerusalem, compensation for lost property, a grant of return for refugees (whether or not they chose to do so). What then would they teach the children? What reason would they give for martyrdom?
I’m not saying everything would be peachy keen right away. Obviously the Palestinians have a lot of internal problems, and you’ve got to remember that fifty years of fuel can make a fire burn for a long time. But for the sake of our children’s children, Israeli, Palestinian, American, shouldn’t we start the process? If a peace agreement was reached in the next five years, then fifty years from now there would be no “Palestinian problem.”
And besides, what the hell could it hurt? What’s the worst that could happen? Israel can defend itself. There is no chance that the Jews would be pushed into the sea if the Palestinians had their own country. Eh?
GAZA CITY (CNN) — Rival factions killed more than two dozen people Tuesday in bitter fighting that has left Gaza sliding into chaos, Palestinian officials said.
As Fatah radio called on fighters to confront Hamas militants and broadcasts from Hamas fighters urged their Fatah foes to abandon their posts or face death, Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas appealed in vain for a cease-fire.
“If anybody thinks that we will be a winner out of this fire, I think they’re wrong,” said Palestinian official Saeb Erakat. “If this fire continues, it will burn all of us. Nobody stands to gain anything.”
Nice bunch of people….if they aren’t fighting Israelis, Lebanese, Syrians, Jordanians, or someone else then who better to start killing off then their own. Heck, this way they don’t even have to leave their neighborhoods…ain’t life great!!!
Come on “G” you have got to get a better cause then these savages. yep..no type-o there, I said savages.
GAZA CITY (CNN) — Rival factions killed more than two dozen people Tuesday in bitter fighting that has left Gaza sliding into chaos, Palestinian officials said.
As Fatah radio called on fighters to confront Hamas militants and broadcasts from Hamas fighters urged their Fatah foes to abandon their posts or face death, Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas appealed in vain for a cease-fire.
“If anybody thinks that we will be a winner out of this fire, I think they’re wrong,” said Palestinian official Saeb Erakat. “If this fire continues, it will burn all of us. Nobody stands to gain anything.”
Nice bunch of people….if they aren’t fighting Israelis, Lebanese, Syrians, Jordanians, or someone else then who better to start killing off then their own. Heck, this way they don’t even have to leave their neighborhoods…ain’t life great!!!
Come on “G” you have got to get a better cause then these savages. yep..no type-o there, I said savages.
We’re all savages alpha. You and I just happen to have been priveleged to live in a prosperous stable country with a solid infrastructure and the rule of law. Some just aren’t that lucky.
As I’ve said before, all violence is about power. Without a strong government and economy, society breaks down. What’s happening in Palestine is no different than the gang wars in our city slums. When you reduce people to living like animals they behave that way.
Seems to me, it would be better for the priveleged of the world to lift up those less so. Then we could all enjoy prosperity and peace.
Oh, was I dreaming just then? Sorry, must’ve fallen asleep there for a moment.
We’re all savages alpha. You and I just happen to have been priveleged to live in a prosperous stable country with a solid infrastructure and the rule of law. Some just aren’t that lucky.
As I’ve said before, all violence is about power. Without a strong government and economy, society breaks down. What’s happening in Palestine is no different than the gang wars in our city slums. When you reduce people to living like animals they behave that way.
Seems to me, it would be better for the priveleged of the world to lift up those less so. Then we could all enjoy prosperity and peace.
Oh, was I dreaming just then? Sorry, must’ve fallen asleep there for a moment.
A dream like this?
Once in the dream of a night I stood
Lone in the light of a magical wood,
Soul-deep in visions that poppy-like sprang;
And spirits of Truth were the birds that sang,
And spirits of Love were the stars that glowed,
And spirits of Peace were the streams that flowed
In that magical wood in the land of sleep.
Excerpt from: Song of a Dream
Sarojini Naidu
A dream like this?
Once in the dream of a night I stood
Lone in the light of a magical wood,
Soul-deep in visions that poppy-like sprang;
And spirits of Truth were the birds that sang,
And spirits of Love were the stars that glowed,
And spirits of Peace were the streams that flowed
In that magical wood in the land of sleep.
Excerpt from: Song of a Dream
Sarojini Naidu
Yeah, that’s just what it looked like. Awww..you’re such a romantic!
Now back to reality…
I am damn sick of being given history lessons. Whenever I talk about making changes in Israel all I get is a bunch of crap about how the Palestinians did this and then the Israelis did that, but the Arabs did this and…who cares! The past is past and can’t be changed. Is that an excuse to NEVER change things? To not even try? What I want to talk about is what are we going to do NOW? And why aren’t we doing it?
Yeah, that’s just what it looked like. Awww..you’re such a romantic!
Now back to reality…
I am damn sick of being given history lessons. Whenever I talk about making changes in Israel all I get is a bunch of crap about how the Palestinians did this and then the Israelis did that, but the Arabs did this and…who cares! The past is past and can’t be changed. Is that an excuse to NEVER change things? To not even try? What I want to talk about is what are we going to do NOW? And why aren’t we doing it?
[...all I get is a bunch of crap about how the Palestinians did this and then the Israelis did that, but the Arabs did this and...who cares! The past is past and can’t be changed.]
“All we are saying, is give peace a chance…”
~John Lennon
That really doesn’t dovetail with the idea that no war was ever won by a combatant unwilling to be as ruthless and merciless as his/her enemy, does it?
Some of my earliest memories of politics involves Muhammad Anwar al-Sadat, Menachem Begin, and James Earl Carter. This ME pissing match has been going on since I before I was born, and given the kids with firearms and martyrdom awareness programs alive and well living in Palestine, no doubt my children will be living with this concern if they ever live to become parents.
Do you have some solution that everyone else is overlooking? And does your solution amount to something more than abject pacifism on our part and a U.S. policy dedicated to the formation of a Palestinian State?
If so, do share.
More importantly, do you think bin Laden would be sated by a Palestinian State?
Cheers,
[...all I get is a bunch of crap about how the Palestinians did this and then the Israelis did that, but the Arabs did this and...who cares! The past is past and can’t be changed.]
“All we are saying, is give peace a chance…”
~John Lennon
That really doesn’t dovetail with the idea that no war was ever won by a combatant unwilling to be as ruthless and merciless as his/her enemy, does it?
Some of my earliest memories of politics involves Muhammad Anwar al-Sadat, Menachem Begin, and James Earl Carter. This ME pissing match has been going on since I before I was born, and given the kids with firearms and martyrdom awareness programs alive and well living in Palestine, no doubt my children will be living with this concern if they ever live to become parents.
Do you have some solution that everyone else is overlooking? And does your solution amount to something more than abject pacifism on our part and a U.S. policy dedicated to the formation of a Palestinian State?
If so, do share.
More importantly, do you think bin Laden would be sated by a Palestinian State?
Cheers,
Well, the first step is that we are allowed to have the discussion without it degenerating into accusations of anti-Semitism. And as with all abusers, there must be an acknowledgement of being part of the problem. So rather than point at the Palestinians, the Israelis must be willing to accept some blame. There are many Israeli peace groups who want to end the apartheid/occupation and negotiate for a Palestinian homeland. Maybe the U.S. could lend some support there.
Ignoring the problem isn’t going to make it go away. And as long as the US keeps funding Israel, terrorist attacks on US soil aren’t going away either.
No of course bin Laden wouldn’t be sated by a Palestinian state. His grievances go much deeper than that. And I’ve said all along that it’s not bin Laden’s mind we’re trying to change, it’s the future generations of Arabs, Muslims, and Palestinians. We don’t want to create MORE bin Ladens do we? I’ve said it many times; we can’t change the result of decades of oppression and violence and injustice. We can’t change bin Laden. But we can change the future NOW.
Let’s pretend that Israel relented and gave Palestine their land back (along with Syria and Lebanon), and Palestine was given the tools to build their infrastructure and economy. They were given citizenship and rights and education and health care, and became prosperous and stable. How would bin Laden recruit young Muslims to jihad if there was no oppression to fight against, no oppressors, no supporters of oppression? It’d be a lot harder to get kids to blow themselves up if they grew up in a world where they never knew apartheid and occupation, if they went to the mall, and the movies, and listened to music on iPods.
We will never EVER defeat terrorism with bombs and guns. That just perpetuates the violence. We need to stop blaming the Palestinians exclusively, insist that Israel accept some responsibility, and make everyone sit down and TALK.
“You can never solve a problem with the same thinking that created it in the first place.”
-Albert Einstein
Well, the first step is that we are allowed to have the discussion without it degenerating into accusations of anti-Semitism. And as with all abusers, there must be an acknowledgement of being part of the problem. So rather than point at the Palestinians, the Israelis must be willing to accept some blame. There are many Israeli peace groups who want to end the apartheid/occupation and negotiate for a Palestinian homeland. Maybe the U.S. could lend some support there.
Ignoring the problem isn’t going to make it go away. And as long as the US keeps funding Israel, terrorist attacks on US soil aren’t going away either.
No of course bin Laden wouldn’t be sated by a Palestinian state. His grievances go much deeper than that. And I’ve said all along that it’s not bin Laden’s mind we’re trying to change, it’s the future generations of Arabs, Muslims, and Palestinians. We don’t want to create MORE bin Ladens do we? I’ve said it many times; we can’t change the result of decades of oppression and violence and injustice. We can’t change bin Laden. But we can change the future NOW.
Let’s pretend that Israel relented and gave Palestine their land back (along with Syria and Lebanon), and Palestine was given the tools to build their infrastructure and economy. They were given citizenship and rights and education and health care, and became prosperous and stable. How would bin Laden recruit young Muslims to jihad if there was no oppression to fight against, no oppressors, no supporters of oppression? It’d be a lot harder to get kids to blow themselves up if they grew up in a world where they never knew apartheid and occupation, if they went to the mall, and the movies, and listened to music on iPods.
We will never EVER defeat terrorism with bombs and guns. That just perpetuates the violence. We need to stop blaming the Palestinians exclusively, insist that Israel accept some responsibility, and make everyone sit down and TALK.
“You can never solve a problem with the same thinking that created it in the first place.”
-Albert Einstein
How would bin Laden recruit young Muslims to jihad if there was no oppression to fight against, no oppressors, no supporters of oppression?
They will always find someone to fight. You forget that his followers bombed England, Spain, France, Indonesia, Pakistan, India, Turkey, Egypt, and on and on and all this in the last three years. Those that flew the planes into the world trade center were not from Palestine, they were for the most part well off Saudi’s who had never suffered the fate of those in Palestinian occupied areas.
You still haven’t addressed the fact that these clowns are knocking each other off like its the national past time. How can you expect Israel to sit down with them when they can’t even have normal negotiations amongst themselves?
“All human situations have their inconveniences. We feel those of the present but neither see nor feel those of the future; and hence we often make troublesome changes without amendment, and frequently for the worse.”
— Benjamin Franklin
How would bin Laden recruit young Muslims to jihad if there was no oppression to fight against, no oppressors, no supporters of oppression?
They will always find someone to fight. You forget that his followers bombed England, Spain, France, Indonesia, Pakistan, India, Turkey, Egypt, and on and on and all this in the last three years. Those that flew the planes into the world trade center were not from Palestine, they were for the most part well off Saudi’s who had never suffered the fate of those in Palestinian occupied areas.
You still haven’t addressed the fact that these clowns are knocking each other off like its the national past time. How can you expect Israel to sit down with them when they can’t even have normal negotiations amongst themselves?
“All human situations have their inconveniences. We feel those of the present but neither see nor feel those of the future; and hence we often make troublesome changes without amendment, and frequently for the worse.”
— Benjamin Franklin
OK I acknowledge that they are killing each other. They’re doing that all over the world, Africa, Asia, Middle East.
But the US has created a power vaccuum in Afghanistan, Palestine, and Iraq. Those power struggles are our responsibility.
Forget negotiating peace between Israel/Palestine, what if we just stop sending money and weapons and quit vetoing UN resolutions requiring Israel to cease their human rights abuses?
I’d be satisfied with that.
OK I acknowledge that they are killing each other. They’re doing that all over the world, Africa, Asia, Middle East.
But the US has created a power vaccuum in Afghanistan, Palestine, and Iraq. Those power struggles are our responsibility.
Forget negotiating peace between Israel/Palestine, what if we just stop sending money and weapons and quit vetoing UN resolutions requiring Israel to cease their human rights abuses?
I’d be satisfied with that.
[Those that flew the planes into the world trade center were not from Palestine, they were for the most part well off Saudi's who had never suffered the fate of those in Palestinian occupied areas.]
What matters most to Muslims is not their national identity, it is their religious identity. Therefore, what happens to one of their people happens to all of Islam. That’s why the widespread acts of terrorism by various nationalities in many nations.
Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, the principle architect of the 9/11 attacks, voiced his disagreement with U.S. foreign policy favoring Israel. The 9/11 Commission Report Page 373; “Among Saudis, the United States is seen as aligned with Israel in its conflict with the Palestinians, with whom Saudis ardently sympathize.”
A poll of people in Egypt, Jordan, Lebanon, Morocco, Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates found that brokering a peace agreement between Israel and the Palestinians would improve their views of the U.S.
Maybe, if we stop killing and oppressing Muslims, they’ll stop attacking us.
I’m just asking, again for the billionth time; why not give it a try? What’s the worst that could happen if we made some foreign policy changes?
[Those that flew the planes into the world trade center were not from Palestine, they were for the most part well off Saudi's who had never suffered the fate of those in Palestinian occupied areas.]
What matters most to Muslims is not their national identity, it is their religious identity. Therefore, what happens to one of their people happens to all of Islam. That’s why the widespread acts of terrorism by various nationalities in many nations.
Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, the principle architect of the 9/11 attacks, voiced his disagreement with U.S. foreign policy favoring Israel. The 9/11 Commission Report Page 373; “Among Saudis, the United States is seen as aligned with Israel in its conflict with the Palestinians, with whom Saudis ardently sympathize.”
A poll of people in Egypt, Jordan, Lebanon, Morocco, Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates found that brokering a peace agreement between Israel and the Palestinians would improve their views of the U.S.
Maybe, if we stop killing and oppressing Muslims, they’ll stop attacking us.
I’m just asking, again for the billionth time; why not give it a try? What’s the worst that could happen if we made some foreign policy changes?
“Maybe, if we stop killing and oppressing Muslims, they’ll stop attacking us.”
Indonesia, Egypt, India, France, Turkey, etc, etc are not oppressing Muslims, but I don’t see them exempt from attacks from radical Muslims. Your premise doesn’t correlate with the given facts of radical Muslim attacks.
I actually agree with you in that our foreign policy needs serious changes. I say lets stop trying to negotiate with the world and start wiping off the face of the earth anyone who conflicts with our national interests and reward those countries willing to kiss our ass. I am getting tired of high oil prices, so why don’t we just go and physically take over those oil producing countries, enslave the populations through a strict obey or everyone dies policy and stop paying these OPEC set prices on oil. If we don’t do it, China surely will in the near future. See “G”, we agree on lots of things!
“Maybe, if we stop killing and oppressing Muslims, they’ll stop attacking us.”
Indonesia, Egypt, India, France, Turkey, etc, etc are not oppressing Muslims, but I don’t see them exempt from attacks from radical Muslims. Your premise doesn’t correlate with the given facts of radical Muslim attacks.
I actually agree with you in that our foreign policy needs serious changes. I say lets stop trying to negotiate with the world and start wiping off the face of the earth anyone who conflicts with our national interests and reward those countries willing to kiss our ass. I am getting tired of high oil prices, so why don’t we just go and physically take over those oil producing countries, enslave the populations through a strict obey or everyone dies policy and stop paying these OPEC set prices on oil. If we don’t do it, China surely will in the near future. See “G”, we agree on lots of things!
Yes, I do agree…as long as we’re honest about our intentions and motivations. If we just drop all of this freedom and democracy nonsense and tell everyone what we’re really about, and as long as we’re willing to accept the inevitable blowback, then I don’t have a problem with world domination.
Yes, I do agree…as long as we’re honest about our intentions and motivations. If we just drop all of this freedom and democracy nonsense and tell everyone what we’re really about, and as long as we’re willing to accept the inevitable blowback, then I don’t have a problem with world domination.
[I’ve said all along that it’s not bin Laden’s mind we’re trying to change, it’s the future generations of Arabs, Muslims, and Palestinians.]
What you’ve maintained all along is that we were attacked on 9/11 due in part to the existence of Israel, the plight of the Palestinians refugees, and U.S. foreign policy in the Middle East.
To paraphrase Rosa Luxemburg… The freedom of speech means nothing unless it means the freedom of the person who thinks differently.
And we do think differently, don’t we?
I maintain that bin Laden’s/Zawahiri’s championing of the Palestinians is largely an opportunistic and arguably artful use of an obvious source of great Western angst.
I contend bin Laden and his Jihadis want all non-Arabs off the Arab peninsula, not the least of which are U.S. forces in Saudi Arabia and Jews in Israel, and that the Jihadis’ ultimate goal is to “establish the righteous caliphate of our umma.” [Osama bin Laden, Message to the World, October 21, 2001]. I further contend the Jihadis’ vision of this caliphate far exceeds the glory of the Ottoman Caliphate. Compared to this objective, the plight of the Palestinian people is purely incidental. The problem goes away when Israel does not exist…
You are right, though, if this is a fair representation of bin Laden’s vision, I dare say there is little our government can do to change his mind.
You intimate that if we stop killing and oppressing Muslims, they’ll stop attacking us. By “they,” I presume you do not mean the rightly beloved Palestinian Refugees, but al Qaeda. While I know of one Palestinian who was a key figure—was being the operative word here—in al Qaeda’s leadership, I don’t think anyone’s ready to make a sturdy connection between the Palestinian refugees and the attacks of 9/11…
You write of changing the heart of the Arab world with an act of “good faith” that establishes a free Palestinian state and brings prosperity to the Palestinian people. Unfortunately, the establishment of a Palestinian State is of far less value to the Jihadist than the elimination of Israel… This is not an argument against the establishment of a Palestinian State, but an acknowledgement that it will do nothing to mitigate the rancor in the Jihadis’ heart.
Cheers,
[I’ve said all along that it’s not bin Laden’s mind we’re trying to change, it’s the future generations of Arabs, Muslims, and Palestinians.]
What you’ve maintained all along is that we were attacked on 9/11 due in part to the existence of Israel, the plight of the Palestinians refugees, and U.S. foreign policy in the Middle East.
To paraphrase Rosa Luxemburg… The freedom of speech means nothing unless it means the freedom of the person who thinks differently.
And we do think differently, don’t we?
I maintain that bin Laden’s/Zawahiri’s championing of the Palestinians is largely an opportunistic and arguably artful use of an obvious source of great Western angst.
I contend bin Laden and his Jihadis want all non-Arabs off the Arab peninsula, not the least of which are U.S. forces in Saudi Arabia and Jews in Israel, and that the Jihadis’ ultimate goal is to “establish the righteous caliphate of our umma.” [Osama bin Laden, Message to the World, October 21, 2001]. I further contend the Jihadis’ vision of this caliphate far exceeds the glory of the Ottoman Caliphate. Compared to this objective, the plight of the Palestinian people is purely incidental. The problem goes away when Israel does not exist…
You are right, though, if this is a fair representation of bin Laden’s vision, I dare say there is little our government can do to change his mind.
You intimate that if we stop killing and oppressing Muslims, they’ll stop attacking us. By “they,” I presume you do not mean the rightly beloved Palestinian Refugees, but al Qaeda. While I know of one Palestinian who was a key figure—was being the operative word here—in al Qaeda’s leadership, I don’t think anyone’s ready to make a sturdy connection between the Palestinian refugees and the attacks of 9/11…
You write of changing the heart of the Arab world with an act of “good faith” that establishes a free Palestinian state and brings prosperity to the Palestinian people. Unfortunately, the establishment of a Palestinian State is of far less value to the Jihadist than the elimination of Israel… This is not an argument against the establishment of a Palestinian State, but an acknowledgement that it will do nothing to mitigate the rancor in the Jihadis’ heart.
Cheers,
So basically you believe that the jihadis, bin Laden, al Qaeda and the like, in other words; Muslims, are trying to take over the world. Just as the Roman empire tried to do, and the British empire, and currently the American empire.
Just another in a long line of power struggles. Yeah, probably. But for the most part, the jihadis are in the minority of Muslims worldwide. While it’s true that many Muslims, especially in the Middle East are troubled by the Palestinian situation, it’s only a very few that do violence because of it.
However, the more we push in that region, with our troops, weapons, oil grabs, occupations, the more Muslims are counted among those with a grudge against us. Why go around the world making enemies? For oil, for wealth and power as alpha suggests? Fine, like I said, if the majority of Americans are willing to go along with that, I will too. But if it’s going to be that way, then I’m with alpha again, let’s institute the military draft, ratchet up our weapons systems and go all out.
Eventually of course, America will go the way of all empires; we’ll overextend ourselves financially and suffer economic collapse and domestic ruin.
The point is, it should be our choice, based on the facts and the true nature of our goals. Then there won’t be any confusion as to what’s going on and why, and we can end any discussion of when our troops will come home. The answer is never.
So basically you believe that the jihadis, bin Laden, al Qaeda and the like, in other words; Muslims, are trying to take over the world. Just as the Roman empire tried to do, and the British empire, and currently the American empire.
Just another in a long line of power struggles. Yeah, probably. But for the most part, the jihadis are in the minority of Muslims worldwide. While it’s true that many Muslims, especially in the Middle East are troubled by the Palestinian situation, it’s only a very few that do violence because of it.
However, the more we push in that region, with our troops, weapons, oil grabs, occupations, the more Muslims are counted among those with a grudge against us. Why go around the world making enemies? For oil, for wealth and power as alpha suggests? Fine, like I said, if the majority of Americans are willing to go along with that, I will too. But if it’s going to be that way, then I’m with alpha again, let’s institute the military draft, ratchet up our weapons systems and go all out.
Eventually of course, America will go the way of all empires; we’ll overextend ourselves financially and suffer economic collapse and domestic ruin.
The point is, it should be our choice, based on the facts and the true nature of our goals. Then there won’t be any confusion as to what’s going on and why, and we can end any discussion of when our troops will come home. The answer is never.
[So basically you believe that the jihadis, bin Laden, al Qaeda and the like, in other words; Muslims, are trying to take over the world.]
Not Muslims. The Jihadis who make up the ranks of al Qaeda. There is a distinction.
This is not merely my belief, this is the stated position of bin Laden, which is why I referred to what he himself said in his “Message to the World.”
Does bin Laden have a design for the entire world?
Were I inclined to seek an answer to this question, the Islamic scriptures are the first place I’d look. I regret I am a slow reader, so I don’t enjoy a digest roomy enough for much Islamic scripture.
Christopher Hitchens answered the question this way: “the objective of [bin Laden and] al Qaeda is not the emancipation of the Palestinians but the establishment of tyranny in the Muslim world by means of indiscriminate violence in the non-Muslim world, and those who confuse the two issues are idiots who don’t always have the excuse of stupidity.” [“Saving Islam from bin Laden,” September 5, 2002]
I myself do not join in this parting shot where present company is concerned.
Cheers,
[So basically you believe that the jihadis, bin Laden, al Qaeda and the like, in other words; Muslims, are trying to take over the world.]
Not Muslims. The Jihadis who make up the ranks of al Qaeda. There is a distinction.
This is not merely my belief, this is the stated position of bin Laden, which is why I referred to what he himself said in his “Message to the World.”
Does bin Laden have a design for the entire world?
Were I inclined to seek an answer to this question, the Islamic scriptures are the first place I’d look. I regret I am a slow reader, so I don’t enjoy a digest roomy enough for much Islamic scripture.
Christopher Hitchens answered the question this way: “the objective of [bin Laden and] al Qaeda is not the emancipation of the Palestinians but the establishment of tyranny in the Muslim world by means of indiscriminate violence in the non-Muslim world, and those who confuse the two issues are idiots who don’t always have the excuse of stupidity.” [“Saving Islam from bin Laden,” September 5, 2002]
I myself do not join in this parting shot where present company is concerned.
Cheers,
Oh, I dunno, I don’t discount the possibility that I could be an idiot, maybe just a very clever sounding idiot, and certainly without the excuse of stupidity, but an idiot nonetheless.
Oh, I dunno, I don’t discount the possibility that I could be an idiot, maybe just a very clever sounding idiot, and certainly without the excuse of stupidity, but an idiot nonetheless.
“[T]he peculiar evil of silencing the expression of an opinion is, that it is robbing the human race; posterity as well as the existing generation; those who dissent from the opinion, still more than those who hold it. If the opinion is right, they are deprived of the opportunity of exchanging error for truth: if wrong, they lose, what is almost as great a benefit, the clearer perception and livelier impression of truth, produced by its collision with error.”
~John Stuart Mill, On Liberty, 1859
This, G, is why I don’t join Hitchen’s sarcastic retort.
Besides, it’s entirely possible that I am wrong…
Cheers,
“[T]he peculiar evil of silencing the expression of an opinion is, that it is robbing the human race; posterity as well as the existing generation; those who dissent from the opinion, still more than those who hold it. If the opinion is right, they are deprived of the opportunity of exchanging error for truth: if wrong, they lose, what is almost as great a benefit, the clearer perception and livelier impression of truth, produced by its collision with error.”
~John Stuart Mill, On Liberty, 1859
This, G, is why I don’t join Hitchen’s sarcastic retort.
Besides, it’s entirely possible that I am wrong…
Cheers,
It’s entirely possible that I may be wrong also, which would mean I’m an idiot, or at the very least, a fool, for arguing my point so avidly. But then, my point being to stop killing and oppressing people, even if it did no good I don’t see how it could hurt. So why not give it a try. No one seems to be able to tell me what is so wrong or dangerous about negotiation, compromise, and justice (for all). Except alpha who thinks a viable Palestinian state could lead to some catastrophic meltdown.
We know what’s not working, so why don’t we try something else?
Hmmmm….what would Yoda do?
It’s entirely possible that I may be wrong also, which would mean I’m an idiot, or at the very least, a fool, for arguing my point so avidly. But then, my point being to stop killing and oppressing people, even if it did no good I don’t see how it could hurt. So why not give it a try. No one seems to be able to tell me what is so wrong or dangerous about negotiation, compromise, and justice (for all). Except alpha who thinks a viable Palestinian state could lead to some catastrophic meltdown.
We know what’s not working, so why don’t we try something else?
Hmmmm….what would Yoda do?
[So why not give it [to stop killing and oppressing people] a try?
…
what would Yoda do?]
Do or not. There is no try.
Cheers,
[So why not give it [to stop killing and oppressing people] a try?
…
what would Yoda do?]
Do or not. There is no try.
Cheers,
Very good young Paduwan…much have you learned, a Jedi you will be!
Very good young Paduwan…much have you learned, a Jedi you will be!
Hey Reckless and pals,
Check out what your Palestinian buddies are doing. “A witness, Jihad Abu Ayad, said men were killed in front of their wives and children.
“They are executing them one by one,” Abu Ayad said. “They are carrying one of them on their shoulders, putting him on a sand dune, turning him around and shooting.”
Whole article here about how the Palestinians are killing each other off.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,282195,00.html
Why isn’t the world in outrage over this? If Israelis were doing this, trying to oust the elected Palestinian government and executing its members in the street in front of their family members the world and our supporters of Palestinians here at Aspen Post would be up in arms, outraged, blaming the US for this horrible oppression. Yet not a peep.
Why? Because it doesn’t fit into their agendas nor the anti-Israel/US agenda. So we will let them fight it out and then when they have no more of Fatah members to kill Hamas will turn on Israel and when Israel responds to these murdering radicals, then we will get the “in your face uproar.” The Al Sharpton/Jesse Jackson fabricated outrage. The demand of respect of human rights and justice.
I say let them kill each other off and hopefully Israel and the Lebanese Army will finish off these savages once and for all…
And who is going to negotiate with Hamas for peace between them and Israel? If they can’t be trusted by their own people, why should Israel trust them? They have fixed themselves in this one, talk about friggin retards.
Hey Reckless and pals,
Check out what your Palestinian buddies are doing. “A witness, Jihad Abu Ayad, said men were killed in front of their wives and children.
“They are executing them one by one,” Abu Ayad said. “They are carrying one of them on their shoulders, putting him on a sand dune, turning him around and shooting.”
Whole article here about how the Palestinians are killing each other off.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,282195,00.html
Why isn’t the world in outrage over this? If Israelis were doing this, trying to oust the elected Palestinian government and executing its members in the street in front of their family members the world and our supporters of Palestinians here at Aspen Post would be up in arms, outraged, blaming the US for this horrible oppression. Yet not a peep.
Why? Because it doesn’t fit into their agendas nor the anti-Israel/US agenda. So we will let them fight it out and then when they have no more of Fatah members to kill Hamas will turn on Israel and when Israel responds to these murdering radicals, then we will get the “in your face uproar.” The Al Sharpton/Jesse Jackson fabricated outrage. The demand of respect of human rights and justice.
I say let them kill each other off and hopefully Israel and the Lebanese Army will finish off these savages once and for all…
And who is going to negotiate with Hamas for peace between them and Israel? If they can’t be trusted by their own people, why should Israel trust them? They have fixed themselves in this one, talk about friggin retards.
Fox News again alpha? I thought we established a “no Fox News link rule” a long time ago.
No matter. I have no love for the Palestinian people or concern for their problems. If they want to kill each other off that’s fine with me. It will end this whole discussion of US policies in support of Israel once and for all.
Then maybe I can enjoy some anonymity.
Fox News again alpha? I thought we established a “no Fox News link rule” a long time ago.
No matter. I have no love for the Palestinian people or concern for their problems. If they want to kill each other off that’s fine with me. It will end this whole discussion of US policies in support of Israel once and for all.
Then maybe I can enjoy some anonymity.
Didn’t know I was not allowed to use a recognized national news source, but here is a link from the Communist News Network if it makes you feel better about the same things.
http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/meast/06/14/gaza/index.html
Finally, we agree. I personally think we should be selling weapons to Hamas and Fatah so that they can speed things along.
Didn’t know I was not allowed to use a recognized national news source, but here is a link from the Communist News Network if it makes you feel better about the same things.
http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/meast/06/14/gaza/index.html
Finally, we agree. I personally think we should be selling weapons to Hamas and Fatah so that they can speed things along.
[I thought we established a "no Fox News link rule" a long time ago.]
I must’ve missed that declaration.
G, you surprise me. With your finely tuned BS detector, I would have thought you’d never advocate for censorship.
Cheers,
[I thought we established a "no Fox News link rule" a long time ago.]
I must’ve missed that declaration.
G, you surprise me. With your finely tuned BS detector, I would have thought you’d never advocate for censorship.
Cheers,
I prefer to call it discretion. Fox News is widely recognized as being a mouthpiece for the administration and a disseminator of misinformation.
I prefer to call it discretion. Fox News is widely recognized as being a mouthpiece for the administration and a disseminator of misinformation.
“Discretion”?
Semantics. You’ve just gone all Hugo Chavez on us.
Please provide a list of all “acceptable” news sources. Or is it just “!Fox”?
Cheers,
“Discretion”?
Semantics. You’ve just gone all Hugo Chavez on us.
Please provide a list of all “acceptable” news sources. Or is it just “!Fox”?
Cheers,
You can use any new source you choose. Just know that if it’s Fox it’s suspect. I prefer more than one source be cited, but we can all do our own research as to the validity of the information.
It goes both ways of course. I’m sure if I cited Rense.com as a source alpha would laugh me out of the arena.
You can use any new source you choose. Just know that if it’s Fox it’s suspect. I prefer more than one source be cited, but we can all do our own research as to the validity of the information.
It goes both ways of course. I’m sure if I cited Rense.com as a source alpha would laugh me out of the arena.
Wow… it’s worse than I thought. Abbas has withdrawn Fatah from the Government, and nearly 100 Fatah officials have been executed…
Here’s a Canadian paper for you:
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20070614.w2gaza0614/BNStory/International/?page=rss&id=RTGAM.20070614.w2gaza0614
Cheers,
Wow… it’s worse than I thought. Abbas has withdrawn Fatah from the Government, and nearly 100 Fatah officials have been executed…
Here’s a Canadian paper for you:
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20070614.w2gaza0614/BNStory/International/?page=rss&id=RTGAM.20070614.w2gaza0614
Cheers,
So much of what we get is pickled red herrings. I try to apply the teachings of the theorists, is it in line with the ideals of the documents and published works in the foundation of democracy and resultant responsibility of govt, if not screw it. If what we do is not developing citizens then we are failing the future. I’ll take ten hungry applicants for citizenship over one fat lazy ignorant American expecting a birthright societal trust fund, the whining “gimme a job cuz I’m a merkin,” doesn’t work for me.
Look at the high school dropout rate, when post graduate degrees will start being the norm in the next decade or so. Who amongst you is willing to hand out money to some ignorant sloth who won’t or can’t solve problems and find solutions. If we don’t educate people born here to become planetary citizens, somebody else will, and that is where the capital is already flowing.
We need to put ourselves in a position where we don’t need the imported oil, and the Jihadists will have no funding from their Saudi enfranchisers. Those in the M.E. will squabble until they accept responsibility. Who knows they may even export a value added product — later.
So much of what we get is pickled red herrings. I try to apply the teachings of the theorists, is it in line with the ideals of the documents and published works in the foundation of democracy and resultant responsibility of govt, if not screw it. If what we do is not developing citizens then we are failing the future. I’ll take ten hungry applicants for citizenship over one fat lazy ignorant American expecting a birthright societal trust fund, the whining “gimme a job cuz I’m a merkin,” doesn’t work for me.
Look at the high school dropout rate, when post graduate degrees will start being the norm in the next decade or so. Who amongst you is willing to hand out money to some ignorant sloth who won’t or can’t solve problems and find solutions. If we don’t educate people born here to become planetary citizens, somebody else will, and that is where the capital is already flowing.
We need to put ourselves in a position where we don’t need the imported oil, and the Jihadists will have no funding from their Saudi enfranchisers. Those in the M.E. will squabble until they accept responsibility. Who knows they may even export a value added product — later.
OKkkkkkk….
Ed, you checked the dose on your meds lately…cause I can’t follow a thing you are talking about.
OKkkkkkk….
Ed, you checked the dose on your meds lately…cause I can’t follow a thing you are talking about.
Let’s see, Ed describes Americans as an essentially shiftless lot whose future depends on social security, and whose principal resume entry is that he/she is a “pubic wig.”
With this unflattering image firmly in place, Ed contrasts “planetary citizens,” presumably those who understand the need for energy independence.
His point is that the problems we see in the ME will remain until “they”–presumably Arab peoples–accept responsibility for their own dependence on oil revenues. When they do accept this responsibility, they presumably become “planetary citizens” themselves, possibly complete with exports that, unlike oil, are not ingredients in some other product, like jet kerosene or gasoline…
At least, that’s what I think he wrote.
Cheers,
Let’s see, Ed describes Americans as an essentially shiftless lot whose future depends on social security, and whose principal resume entry is that he/she is a “pubic wig.”
With this unflattering image firmly in place, Ed contrasts “planetary citizens,” presumably those who understand the need for energy independence.
His point is that the problems we see in the ME will remain until “they”–presumably Arab peoples–accept responsibility for their own dependence on oil revenues. When they do accept this responsibility, they presumably become “planetary citizens” themselves, possibly complete with exports that, unlike oil, are not ingredients in some other product, like jet kerosene or gasoline…
At least, that’s what I think he wrote.
Cheers,
This is rich… I didn’t think a story could push the Palestinians eating their own off the front page. I was wrong. On June 15, Britain bestowed a Knighthood on Salman Rushdie. Apparently, this news flew low under the radar, but the word’s out now and the Muslim community is beside themselves:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/6763119.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6760927.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/6766569.stm
Cheers,
This is rich… I didn’t think a story could push the Palestinians eating their own off the front page. I was wrong. On June 15, Britain bestowed a Knighthood on Salman Rushdie. Apparently, this news flew low under the radar, but the word’s out now and the Muslim community is beside themselves:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/6763119.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6760927.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/6766569.stm
Cheers,
Many Americans feel as though they can just “go to work” without studying academically, just pick up a trade, or some bluecollar high dollar job, as they could back in the fifties and sixties. Sorry but things have changed. Only the lazy sloths feel and act this way, failing to get the rubber to meet the road. Not every American is this way.
We can no longer expect a job as some form of inherited American citizenship social “right.” The ‘global economy’ gives anyone the right to undercut someone else on costs, labor, materials, value added products such as jet kerosene fuel or gasoline. The sooner we understand and do this, the sooner the Peoples in the M.E. will yes have to be responsible and start doing something else besides using petrodollars to fund idiot herecies that spawn the jihadist theology.
If our currency strength, is a measure of the value of our resources and abilitiy to manage those resources, what has it been doing the past 8 years. I would rather live in any non embargoed coherent high tax country than any society that currently exists with no taxes. I really think those who don’t want to pay taxes should abdicate citizenship and emigrate to countries where they won’t have to deal with this issue.
The Roman Republic considered the paying of taxes a privilege. If China or India adopted this philosophy, don’t expect me to think what we are doing in this country and the flag waving of Chinese made American flags and no taxes is going to solve the competitive problem, or global warming.
To me, preparing this nation means nearly diametric opposition to the Bush policies wherever they are (I do embrace his nearly ignored HIV policies in Africa) . His policies are an accelerant of the corrosion of this countries economic high ground. Energy independence, one of the biggest strategic failures of R.Reagan would have left the jihadists as nothing more than a mass theological abortion.
Having general contempt for Bush and recoiling disgust for jihadist heretics is not mutually exclusive.
The former is treasonous and the latter better used as fertilizer.
Many Americans feel as though they can just “go to work” without studying academically, just pick up a trade, or some bluecollar high dollar job, as they could back in the fifties and sixties. Sorry but things have changed. Only the lazy sloths feel and act this way, failing to get the rubber to meet the road. Not every American is this way.
We can no longer expect a job as some form of inherited American citizenship social “right.” The ‘global economy’ gives anyone the right to undercut someone else on costs, labor, materials, value added products such as jet kerosene fuel or gasoline. The sooner we understand and do this, the sooner the Peoples in the M.E. will yes have to be responsible and start doing something else besides using petrodollars to fund idiot herecies that spawn the jihadist theology.
If our currency strength, is a measure of the value of our resources and abilitiy to manage those resources, what has it been doing the past 8 years. I would rather live in any non embargoed coherent high tax country than any society that currently exists with no taxes. I really think those who don’t want to pay taxes should abdicate citizenship and emigrate to countries where they won’t have to deal with this issue.
The Roman Republic considered the paying of taxes a privilege. If China or India adopted this philosophy, don’t expect me to think what we are doing in this country and the flag waving of Chinese made American flags and no taxes is going to solve the competitive problem, or global warming.
To me, preparing this nation means nearly diametric opposition to the Bush policies wherever they are (I do embrace his nearly ignored HIV policies in Africa) . His policies are an accelerant of the corrosion of this countries economic high ground. Energy independence, one of the biggest strategic failures of R.Reagan would have left the jihadists as nothing more than a mass theological abortion.
Having general contempt for Bush and recoiling disgust for jihadist heretics is not mutually exclusive.
The former is treasonous and the latter better used as fertilizer.
[...what has it [the U.S. Dollar] been doing the past 8 years…?]
Well, as indicated by the NYBOT US Dollar Index, from January, 2000 to January, 2002, the value of the U.S. Dollar increased, from 101.39 to 120.59. From that point until now, the value has decreased pretty unrelentingly. The index is currently at 82.49.
You object to people who don’t want high taxation rates. Are you suggesting that the Administration’s tax cuts are to blame for the value of the dollar?
What happened on January 1, 2002?
Cheers,
[...what has it [the U.S. Dollar] been doing the past 8 years…?]
Well, as indicated by the NYBOT US Dollar Index, from January, 2000 to January, 2002, the value of the U.S. Dollar increased, from 101.39 to 120.59. From that point until now, the value has decreased pretty unrelentingly. The index is currently at 82.49.
You object to people who don’t want high taxation rates. Are you suggesting that the Administration’s tax cuts are to blame for the value of the dollar?
What happened on January 1, 2002?
Cheers,
Wow! I’ll reserve comment on this one until around 6 or 8 p.m., Saturday, 23rd, at that JimBob Jumpback dude’s place on the Crystal River. Oh, my… how I want to chime in on this one…. — J
Wow! I’ll reserve comment on this one until around 6 or 8 p.m., Saturday, 23rd, at that JimBob Jumpback dude’s place on the Crystal River. Oh, my… how I want to chime in on this one…. — J
Dear Mr. Ripley,
Everyone but “me” should pay taxes. Part of the CULTural programming from those who call themselves conservative. I don’t want to pay taxes either, but understand that if taxes were not paid by anyone, we have few examples of wealthy countries or societies where there are no taxes to choose as models. In fact show me one in the last hundred years.
What is the percentage of Americans who understand and accept the reasons for taxes compared to W. Europeans and Japanese? They (W. Europeans and Japanese) see the reduced export of their currencies in the form of mass transit, a change in the flow of currency because taxes paid for their education (the educated populace can solve problems — the fundamental reason why people get paid), increased longevity which means a longer contribution to the economy and return on investment in universal health care and education.
Taxes should be high enough to develop educated enough for Ph. D., M.D. and gasp J.D. degrees and obviously anything less. Failing to finish high school by 19 should be penalized, unless there are extenuating medical issues, by a statutory fine. Civil service whether military or not, should be two completed consecutive years by age 25 and mandatory. Noncompliance would bring a fine and something like a week in jail.
Other taxes should go to raw R&D in hard sciences, application of mined scientific data to production engineering, transition to solar hydrogen based economy, pollution mitigation, environmental science, planetary science, solar science (stellar evolution indicates problems at some point), ethical human genetic development, solar system travel, terrification and colonisation; and the usual roads, dams, electrifcation, potholes and mass transit .
I am not interested in living in a stone age, tax free society run by Taliban Christianites. I don’t need guns bullets or this government to survive. By living better we won’t have to motivate stone age jihadist heretics to attack us and distract us from our waning condition.
Dear Mr. Ripley,
Everyone but “me” should pay taxes. Part of the CULTural programming from those who call themselves conservative. I don’t want to pay taxes either, but understand that if taxes were not paid by anyone, we have few examples of wealthy countries or societies where there are no taxes to choose as models. In fact show me one in the last hundred years.
What is the percentage of Americans who understand and accept the reasons for taxes compared to W. Europeans and Japanese? They (W. Europeans and Japanese) see the reduced export of their currencies in the form of mass transit, a change in the flow of currency because taxes paid for their education (the educated populace can solve problems — the fundamental reason why people get paid), increased longevity which means a longer contribution to the economy and return on investment in universal health care and education.
Taxes should be high enough to develop educated enough for Ph. D., M.D. and gasp J.D. degrees and obviously anything less. Failing to finish high school by 19 should be penalized, unless there are extenuating medical issues, by a statutory fine. Civil service whether military or not, should be two completed consecutive years by age 25 and mandatory. Noncompliance would bring a fine and something like a week in jail.
Other taxes should go to raw R&D in hard sciences, application of mined scientific data to production engineering, transition to solar hydrogen based economy, pollution mitigation, environmental science, planetary science, solar science (stellar evolution indicates problems at some point), ethical human genetic development, solar system travel, terrification and colonisation; and the usual roads, dams, electrifcation, potholes and mass transit .
I am not interested in living in a stone age, tax free society run by Taliban Christianites. I don’t need guns bullets or this government to survive. By living better we won’t have to motivate stone age jihadist heretics to attack us and distract us from our waning condition.
I should have refined the broad idea of “wealth” as the “mean level of wealth.” The average is considerably less useful to the point.
Oh and the dollar may continue on a very long much longer decline if taxes are not sufficient and society not diligent enough to develop an educated populace — citizens. This could be permanent for multiple generations.
I should have refined the broad idea of “wealth” as the “mean level of wealth.” The average is considerably less useful to the point.
Oh and the dollar may continue on a very long much longer decline if taxes are not sufficient and society not diligent enough to develop an educated populace — citizens. This could be permanent for multiple generations.
[...living better we won't have to motivate stone age jihadist heretics to attack us and distract us from our waning condition...]
You spell out what you mean by “living better” pretty clearly. You also infer that “we”–U.S. citizens–motivate the jihadist to kill us. Please clarify exactly how, by what actions, “we” have done this.
Cheers,
[...living better we won't have to motivate stone age jihadist heretics to attack us and distract us from our waning condition...]
You spell out what you mean by “living better” pretty clearly. You also infer that “we”–U.S. citizens–motivate the jihadist to kill us. Please clarify exactly how, by what actions, “we” have done this.
Cheers,
Hmmm…thought we covered that already. Since Ed will no doubt give his usual cryptic answer, I’ll just provide a short one of my own;
US citizens, as co-participants in American democracy, charged with electing the people who make and execute policy, and required to dissent when policies violate our constitution, national ethics and security, by allowing said policymakers and policies to remain in place are responsible for the consequences of those policies. And by allowing the current reliance upon foreign oil to continue unchallenged, we accept the consequences of the military action required to secure that oil.
Ed, you can take it from here.
Hmmm…thought we covered that already. Since Ed will no doubt give his usual cryptic answer, I’ll just provide a short one of my own;
US citizens, as co-participants in American democracy, charged with electing the people who make and execute policy, and required to dissent when policies violate our constitution, national ethics and security, by allowing said policymakers and policies to remain in place are responsible for the consequences of those policies. And by allowing the current reliance upon foreign oil to continue unchallenged, we accept the consequences of the military action required to secure that oil.
Ed, you can take it from here.
This is an argument of convenience penned with the broadest of crow quills.
You contend “we” motivate jihadists by participating in a Democracy that elects U.S. policy makers. That’s the extent of your syllogism. By this logic, the U.S. should surrender to the jihadists immediately, for far too many U.S. citizens have voted in a presidential election.
I thought maybe you could give me something specific. For example, I tend to drive the speed limit, which tends to piss some people off. I’m not suggesting the jihadists care how I drive. It’s just that I’m looking for something a bit more meaty than the fact that I have voted in a U.S. election.
Cheers,
This is an argument of convenience penned with the broadest of crow quills.
You contend “we” motivate jihadists by participating in a Democracy that elects U.S. policy makers. That’s the extent of your syllogism. By this logic, the U.S. should surrender to the jihadists immediately, for far too many U.S. citizens have voted in a presidential election.
I thought maybe you could give me something specific. For example, I tend to drive the speed limit, which tends to piss some people off. I’m not suggesting the jihadists care how I drive. It’s just that I’m looking for something a bit more meaty than the fact that I have voted in a U.S. election.
Cheers,
It’s really as simple as We the People. We don’t have the excuse of a dictatorship or monarchy, where we can just point to our leaders and say it’s their fault, we had nothing to do with it. It’s our country and we run it with our votes, our support, or our protest.
I think people of the world look at the complacency of the American people with disgust and amazement. They see us letting our government get away with, literally, murder. We allowed the war in Iraq to happen, we allow it to continue. Maybe it’s not so much about what we do, but what we don’t do.
Although in the context of Ed’s statement, I think you’re closer to the mark with your efforts to conserve fuel. Still, that’ may be too passive an attitude in the “war on terror.”
It’s really as simple as We the People. We don’t have the excuse of a dictatorship or monarchy, where we can just point to our leaders and say it’s their fault, we had nothing to do with it. It’s our country and we run it with our votes, our support, or our protest.
I think people of the world look at the complacency of the American people with disgust and amazement. They see us letting our government get away with, literally, murder. We allowed the war in Iraq to happen, we allow it to continue. Maybe it’s not so much about what we do, but what we don’t do.
Although in the context of Ed’s statement, I think you’re closer to the mark with your efforts to conserve fuel. Still, that’ may be too passive an attitude in the “war on terror.”
For the record, I don’t drive the speed limit to conserve fuel. I don’t like to drive fast, and when I find myself doing so, it’s a clear sign that I’ve got too much going on and need to chill. Honestly, that should be all the time… I have yung’uns, a job, and a mortgage…
On that admission, perhaps you can explain to me how the Jihadists justify killing American children. American children don’t vote.
And don’t come at me with some diatribe about all the “three be-jillion” Iraqi children U.S. policy killed—you know as well as I that it’s not the same thing. Saddam brought that plight on the children of Iraq defying UN sanctions, building palaces, and indulging his sons on oil-for-food monies.
It is about “We the People.” I’m not hiding under the robes of a monarch, behind the shoulder of a dictator, or the intentions of a hated American President. I for one, have all but lost any hope that the American government can protect its people, which is why I seek a better understanding of those who would kill my wife and children…
Cheers,
For the record, I don’t drive the speed limit to conserve fuel. I don’t like to drive fast, and when I find myself doing so, it’s a clear sign that I’ve got too much going on and need to chill. Honestly, that should be all the time… I have yung’uns, a job, and a mortgage…
On that admission, perhaps you can explain to me how the Jihadists justify killing American children. American children don’t vote.
And don’t come at me with some diatribe about all the “three be-jillion” Iraqi children U.S. policy killed—you know as well as I that it’s not the same thing. Saddam brought that plight on the children of Iraq defying UN sanctions, building palaces, and indulging his sons on oil-for-food monies.
It is about “We the People.” I’m not hiding under the robes of a monarch, behind the shoulder of a dictator, or the intentions of a hated American President. I for one, have all but lost any hope that the American government can protect its people, which is why I seek a better understanding of those who would kill my wife and children…
Cheers,