On Michael Conniff’s show today Barry Schochet regurgitated the popular myth that peace is not possible between Israel and the Palestinians because a majority of the Palestinians don’t want peace and want to take all of Israel for themselves. This myth of hatred has been perpetuated by the Israel propaganda machine for so long now that it is accepted as fact by a majority of Americans including Mr. Schochet, despite Conman’s touting him as the “resident expert.”
Apparently Barry didn’t bother to check the facts before blurting out this arrogant racist statement. But why should he, no one cares about the facts. The truth is, as Al Gore says; inconvenient. Claiming that the Palestinians are the obstacle to peace allows Israel to continue its illegal settlement of Palestinian land. “They hate us” is all Israel and American supporters of Israel need to justify the continued denial of the creation of a Palestinian homeland.
Some even go so far as to claim that this is a religious hatred that goes back thousands of years. Actually Islam has been more tolerant of Judaism and Christianity than Christianity has been of either of the others. Muslims consider themselves brothers and sisters to Christians and Jews who are all “the people of the books,” meaning the holy books; the Torah, Bible and Koran, and that all worship the same, one and only, true God.
There is scant evidence that Muslims have an innate hatred of Jews. The two people have historically lived in harmony in the Middle East. Until the run up to the creation of Israel that is, which indicates that this is not an ideological or religious struggle, but a struggle for land.
Despite the framing of the Middle East conflict as a problem of Muslim hatred for Jews and the Palestinian desire to destroy Israel, the fact remains that since 1967 Israel has been a military aggressor, occupying the areas set aside by the 1947 partition plan for an Arab Palestinian homeland. Israel’s first president said; “I’m certain the world will judge Israel by how it treats the Arabs.” Subsequent leaders decided that the world could not judge Israel if it didn’t know how Israel treats the Arabs. Thus it became undoubtedly the world’s best kept secret. That is why people like Schochet continue to refer to the myth of hatred.
Schochet’s pronouncement that “The Palestinian people feel time is on their side, and if they just wait it out, eventually they will have all of Israel to themselves,” is not only false, it’s an absurd notion. The entire Palestinian population would have to be severely delusional to believe that they, with their paltry collection of pathetic rocket launchers, could ever win against the fourth most powerful military in the world. Expecting the neighboring Arab nations to come to their aid is also unrealistic. The 1967 Six Day War and subsequent peace agreements put an end to that dream.
What Palestinians today really want is not to destroy Israel’s Jewish homeland, but the establishment of a viable homeland of their own. Palestinians are not preventing the peace, the brutal tactics of the ongoing Jewish settlement of Palestinian land is the real culprit.
Israel has consistently put acquisition of land ahead of peace. Despite claiming to agree with the “Land for Peace” formula, Israelis have rejected any peace plan that included halting the expansion of settlements. This was why Arafat walked away from the peace offer at Camp David. He could not in good conscience willingly give away the land that rightfully belongs to the Palestinian people.
Currently 450,000 Jewish settlers are living illegally in the West Bank. Illegally because the Fourth Geneva Convention, to which Israel is a signatory, forbids an occupying power from transferring any part of its civilian population into territories seized by military force. Every year 12,000 Palestinians are driven from their homes and land to make way for Jewish only settlements and roads. Israel currently occupies 42% of the area that was supposed to form the Arab Palestinian state.
Official US policy which has been on the books since the 80’s states that “Israeli settlements are an obstacle to peace.” A recent world opinion poll found that Israel is considered the top threat to world peace. Not Palestinians, not Iran, ISRAEL. But what do the Palestinians themselves think? After all, this is the crux of the argument. Do the majority of the Palestinian people want to destroy Israel, as Barry Schochet claims?
“The Palestinian Center for Policy and Survey Research (PSR) in Ramallah and the Harry S. Truman Research Institute for the Advancement of Peace at the Hebrew University, Jerusalem, have conducted a joint survey of Palestinian and Israeli public opinion.
This joint poll is the sixth in an ongoing research project into the opinions of the two publics. The first poll was conducted in July 2000 at the wake of the Camp David summit. The current poll was designed to examine attitudes toward the roadmap on its various stages, toward a mutual recognition of the national identity of Israel and a future Palestine and toward reconciliation. In addition the Israeli survey also examined attitudes on the future of the settlements among the general public and among settlers in the West Bank and Gaza.”
According to the poll a majority of 80% among Israelis and 71% among Palestinians supports reconciliation between the two peoples after reaching a peace agreement and the establishment of a Palestinian state. After reaching a peace agreement, 83% of Palestinians would support open borders between Israel and Palestine and 66% would support joint economic institutions and ventures.
Given that enlightening information, what is preventing the creation of the Palestinian state? The answer is the settlers. The poll found that in case a decision is made to evacuate authorized settlements, only 24% say they will obey it, 60% say they will resist it by legal means and 13% say they will resist it by all means. 54% believe that in such a struggle it is justified to bring down the government, 15% say that it is justified to endanger oneself and one’s family and 9% believe it is justified to endanger other Jews in such a struggle.
This radical attitude among the settlers stems from the belief of some Jews that it is their duty to fulfill the Zionist imperative to reconstruct the Kingdom of David which includes what is now Israel, all of the West Bank and Gaza, and parts of Jordan and Syria. 37% of the settlers chose to live in the settlements mainly because of a religious or national mission to inhabit the land. The others say they are there for security or economic reasons. Israel has encouraged settlement by offering economic incentives to its citizens that agree to move into the occupied territory.
In the early 1980s, the World Zionist Organization published a master plan stating; “lands in Judea and Samaria ought to be seized right away, with the purpose of settling the areas…so as to reduce to the minimum the danger of an additional Arab state being established in these territories. Being cut off by Jewish settlements, the minority population will find it difficult to form a territorial and political continuity.”
Yitzhak Shamir, twice Israel’s Prime Minister declared in 1997; “The settlement of the land of Israel is the essence of Zionism. Without settlement, we will not fulfill Zionism. It’s that simple.” In 1998 Ariel Sharon proclaimed; “Everyone has to move, run and grab as many hilltops as they can to enlarge the settlements, because everything we take now will stay ours, everything we don’t grab will go to them.” Colonialism, which has been abolished throughout the world, is still being practiced in Israel. Currently an apartheid system exists and Palestinian Muslims and Christians live in segregation, poverty and despair while Jews enjoy prosperity and freedom.
Arafat agreed to recognize Israel as a Jewish state when a Palestinian state was created. Hamas has agreed to renounce violence when Israel renounces repression. Leaders of neighboring Arab states agreed to recognize Israel when Israel retreats to its internationally recognized 1967 borders as mandated by UN Resolution 242. But Israel has never declared the extent of their territory or the location of their borders. Instead, they continue to annex more territory in the West Bank, mainly through the building of the “security barrier” which is entirely on the Palestinian side of the Green Line; the demarcation between Israel and the West Bank. The wall cuts Muslim and Christian Palestinians off from their fields, mosques, churches, family, schools, hospitals, and towns. For an excellent overview of this tragic situation see The Iron Wall available to view online at Google videos; http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=the+iron+wall&sitesearch=
I believe if more people knew the actual circumstances of the Israeli occupation of Palestine they would be less likely to believe the myth of hatred. In fact, they might conclude that rather than a religious hatred of Jews by Muslims, the actual cause of the Middle East conflict is the religious zealousness of Israel’s Zionist settlers.
During my visit to Jordan and Syria last year, I met several Palestinian second generation refugees. They were guides, hotel workers and drivers. All had the same story-my parents were told in 1948 by British soldiers to leave their homes in what is now Israel for a few weeks. They have never been allowed to return. This approximately 700,000 people has grown to approximately 4-7 million. Without acknowledgement and compensation to these people, there will never be peace in the Middle East as was pointed out earlier this year by Jordan’s king to a joint session of Congress.
Israel fears their return as they could out number the Jews and they would loose control.
Didn’t we go over all this back in July. and Krahe posted almost the exact same post back then. In order to expidite the discussion I have just cut and pasted from the July posts to get us started.
4. Cathleen Krahe | June 12th, 2007 at 8:08 am
Israel receives the largest amount of US foreign aid and has for many years. We have been giving them aid since 1948. They have a successful economy and unlike the US, last summer Thomas Friedman reported they had a budget surplus. As part of a 10 year agreement with Israel, which ends next year, the US will be giving Israel $ 2.4 billion in military aid. Over the last several years, including loan guarantees, we have given Israel approximately $ 5 billion per year. When Israel bombed Lebanon last year they request we pay for it. They requested we pay for the up to $200,000 per settler they gave to the illegal Israeli settlers who had to leave Gaza in Aug. 2005.
Alpha 6 is misinformed about the Palestinian situation in 1948. Last year, I met several hard working Palestinians in Jordan and Syria. They all told the same story. Their parents were told by British soldiers to leave for a short time. They have never been allowed to return. Including those who had to leave after the 1967 war, there are approximately 7 million Palestinian refugees living in countries neighboring Israel. UN resolutions have called for settling their Right of Return. As the Jordan King pointed out to a joint session of Congress earlier this year, the Israel-Palestinian situation is the biggest reason for unrest in the Middle East. Jordan is the 5th largest recepient of US.
60-65 % of the Jordanian population, of just under 6 million people, is of Palestinian origin. My information comes from my visit to the US Embassy in Jordan, talking to employed well educated people of Palestinian origin in Jordan and Syria and the Jordanian Ambassador to the US.
Israel with a population of approximatelt 5 million people fears losing control if they allow the Palestinians to returns. In most cases, the Palestinians have intergrated into their new country and would not return, but want their right of return aknowledged.
Israel preemptively attacked Egypt in June of 1967 and and Jordan and Syria supported Egypt in the 6 day war. Israel seized the West Bank and East Jerusalem from Jordan, the Golan Heights from Syria and the Sinai Peninsula from Egypt. The Jordan King gave up claims to the areas taken from Jordan for peace. Several Jordanians said this decision was unpopular among Jordanians.
5. alpha6 | June 12th, 2007 at 8:41 am
Cathy,
Here are the facts surrounding the six day war.
In the months before June 1967, Egypt expelled the United Nations Emergency Force from the Sinai Peninsula, increased its military activity near the border, blockaded the Straits of Tiran to Israeli ships, and called for unified Arab action against Israel. In June 1967, Israel launched a pre-emptive attack on Egypt’s airforce fearing an imminent invasion by Egypt.[1] Jordan then attacked western Jerusalem and Netanya.[2][3] At the war’s end, Israel had gained control of eastern Jerusalem, the Gaza Strip, the Sinai Peninsula, the West Bank, and the Golan Heights. The results of the war affect the geopolitics of the region to this day.
I am more informed about the situation they you might think, and it doesn’t come from being duped by some disgruntled refugees.
Israel is not the only country in the middle east that that receives aid from the US, as a matter of fact, the ARAB countries receive much more collectively in aid then Israel. As an example, The US has provided Egypt with $1.3 billion a year in military aid since 1979, and an average of $815 million a year in economic assistance. All told, Egypt has received over $50 billion in US largesse since 1975.
The second generation Palestinians I met in Jordan and Syria were not disgruntled, they were employed, educated with families living good lives. They told us the details of an injustice to their parents.
I am against giving aid to the Egyptian, Pakistan, etc. dictatorships.
” Under the current arrangement, the United States gives Israel $3-4 billion in aid and grants a year—about $500 per Israeli and several orders of magnitude more than aid to citizens of any other country. Israel is the only American aid recipient not required to account for how the money is spent. Washington uses its Security Council veto to shield Israel from critical UN resolutions and periodically issues bland statements lamenting the continued expansion of Israeli settlements on the Palestinian land the Jewish state has occupied since 1967. When Israel violates U.S. law, as it did in Lebanon by using American-made cluster bombs against civilian targets, a low-level official may issue a mild complaint. These fundamentals of the relationship go unchallenged by 95 percent of American politicians holding or running for national office.”
To anwser reeky G about hatred myth.
Late last month, I went to hear Bishop Desmond Tutu speak at Boston’s Old South Church at a conference on “Israel Apartheid.” Tutu is a well respected man of God. He brought reconciliation between blacks and whites in South Africa. That he would lead a conference that damns the Jewish state is very disturbing to me.
The State of Israel is not an apartheid state. I know because I write this from Jerusalem where I have seen Arab mothers peacefully strolling with their families – even though I also drove on Israeli roads protected by walls and fences from Arab bullets and stones. I know Arabs go to Israeli schools, and get the best medical care in the world. I know they vote and have elected representatives to the Israeli Parliament. I see street signs in Arabic, an official language here. None of this was true for blacks under Apartheid in Tutu’s South Africa.
I also know countries that do deserve the apartheid label: My country, Sudan, is on the top of the list, but so are Iran, Saudi Arabia and Egypt. What has happened to my people in Sudan is a thousand times worse than Apartheid in South Africa. And no matter how the Palestinians suffer, they suffer nothing compared to my people. Nothing. And most of the suffering is the fault of their leaders. Bishop Tutu, I see black Jews walking down the street here in Jerusalem. Black like us, free and proud.
Tutu said Israeli checkpoints are a nightmare. But checkpoints are there because Palestinians are sent into Israel to blow up and kill innocent women and children. Tutu wants checkpoints removed. Do you not have doors in your home, Bishop? Does that make your house an apartheid house? If someone, Heaven forbid, tried to enter with a bomb, we would want you to have security people “humiliating” your guests with searches, and we would not call you racist for doing so. We all go through checkpoints at every airport. Are the airlines being racist? No.
Yes, the Palestinians are inconvenienced at checkpoints. But why, Bishop Tutu, do you care more about that inconvenience than about Jewish lives?
Bishop, when you used to dance for Mandela’s freedom, we Africans – all over Africa – joined in. Our support was key in your freedom. But when children in Burundi and Kinshasa, all the way to Liberia and Sierra Leone, and in particular in Sudan, cried and called for rescue, you heard but chose to be silent.
Today, black children are enslaved in Sudan, the last place in the continent of Africa where humans are owned by other humans – I was part of the movement to stop slavery in Mauritania, which just now abolished the practice. But you were not with us, Bishop Tutu.
So where is Desmond Tutu when my people call out for freedom? Slaughter and genocide and slavery are lashing Africans right now. Where are you for Sudan, Bishop Tutu? You are busy attacking the Jewish state. Why?
Simon Deng, a native of the Shiluk Kingdom in southern Sudan, is an escaped jihad slave and a leading human rights activist.
[Sue Gray has a constipated mind nothing but the same shit in there!!!]
I never thought Elaine Sandler could be matched in the personal-attacks-against-Reckless G department, but you sure are giving Elaine a run for her money. Along the way, you have convinced me of your position–you sound so rational in your relentless explanation! Of course, it’s an Arab/Islamic problem only. The Palestinians don’t want peace. Israel wants peace. Apparently peace in the Middle East is easily achieved if the Arabs just wake up and discard their one-sided hateful demeanor! Who knew?
While you are browsing the site, feel free to reach enlightenment on other issues expertly addressed by prolific monoperspective writers. For example, immigration (legal or illegal) is apparently a problem of epidemic proportions. There is no rational reason that a single additional immigrant should be permitted to migrate to the U.S. After you have read all 150 posts documenting the ills of immigration and population growth (unless it occurs outside the US of A–and then of course it is no problem), you will see the light. And the way to effectuate this realistic goal is simple as can be–just keep people out! Build a fence. Seal the borders! Just like a giant band-aid! It’s that easy. Who knew?
Quick–we need some Ex Lax for Aspen Post!
You may be hesitant to heed my advice on this matter, but I should caution you that I know everything about everything. The editor of Aspen Post says so! In fact, that’s one of the reasons that J.D. Power and Associates has awarded this site with a special “Best Local Blog in the Country Award”.
Rather than delete these comments from this post, I will let them stand as evidence of the deranged mind of Jerome Marks aka Proud Zionist whose continuous verbal attacks appear in the online comments section as shown below;
“Sue Gray of Carbodale, Colorado most likely blamed the Jews for the whole incedent.
For GoDs sake show you have a brain SuEY and learn something else beside your hateful agenda!! Have you made out with Steve Campell lately?!?!?
Sue Gray is a hypocite of the worst degree!!!! Not to mention her twisted lies tha stem from her hate of the Jews.
Sue your just what you say Shoebat, except he actually knows what is really happening and you blame it all on the Jews(From your Hate).
Your statements prove you hate Jews and Israel.
The right wing and middle sources are more honest but you refuse to believe the truth because of your hatred of Jews and Israel.
YES SUey YOU ARE WAY CRAZY WITH YOUR HATE! WE ALL HATE YOU!
Sue is a Jew hater plain and simlpe!
Let me simplify her commentary for you — sum it up, for once and for all — and you can skip her crap in the future: Jews are the sum of all the world’s evil.
The consensus is Sue Gray is a racist, and one of the worst kind. She married a man from the race she detests while hiding under the disguise that she detests the Israeli government and their policies. She also stated that about our own government. Yeah, we believe you Sue Gray, we believe you are hateful, a racist, and blowing a lot of hot air.”
I generally don’t respond to these sorts of attacks, but I admit I have at times been an enabler of Jerome Marks’ mental imbalance. As it’s really not fair to goad someone who is so obviously in need of psychological help, I’ll try to refrain in the future.
deranged mind isn’t that a personal attack? I meant every word of what I wrote, I deleted because M.Conniff asked to not attack personally and to stick to issues. Sue you never commented on Bernard Lewis or Simon Deng?!?!?
Are they shills as you called Walid Shoebat or do they have any good points to what they write? You most likely didn’t even read any of it did you?
Proud Zionist:
I have had to delete several of your comments and you know exactly why because I warned you about this kind of behavior IN PERSON.
There is one rule on Aspen Post and all Post Time Media blogs: you can’t get personal.
Reckless G chose to quote you and so I left that up. But the next time you say anything personal about anyone on Aspen Post you are history. That’s a promise.
If you have a problem with G’s views, then make your case as you seem capable of doing. Do not make a personal attack on her or anyone else EVER on a Post blog because it will be your last.
Elaine Sandler, by the way, had no way of dealing with a real dialogue and so she dropped out after pouring out her venom and by the way hurting her cause. My guess is that eventually you will do the same.
If you keep this up, I can PERSONALLY guarantee you that you won’t be missed.
Best, Michael!
It was sad to read some of Proud Zionist’s comments. He is a fine hair cutter who I had to sadly stopped going to because of his one sided views. I took his very sweet wife to lunch after she moved here from Israel because she was lonely. Because my opinions are different than his does not make me anti semitic. I have a different body of information gained from NGO workers and visitors to the West Bank.
Con Man,
It seems like 1439 minutes a day I disagree with you, but kudos to you for the way you handled Proud Zionist. Well done!
Maybe an explanation is necessary as to why I posted the list of personal attacks from Jerome Marks aka Proud Zionist, despite Michael’s admonition. I believe anyone wishing to address Zionist’s comments here should be aware of the type of mentality we are dealing with. A reasonably sane person argues their points without resorting to the types of personal attacks he has made. I felt posting his comments would be enough to caution anyone who might take on the task of addressing his position on the topic of Israel/Palestine.
Thank you Michael, Wharf Rat and Cathleen for recognizing the situation for what it is.
Kudos to WharfRat for knowing minutes-in-a-day minus 1, and to G for once again casting the Jewish community in the worst possible light. Mr. Marks’ invective notwithstanding, I see G properly does not include me in the company of Michael, Rat, and Cathleen…
Cheers,
Thanks for this link G. Once again, the more information gathered, the greater the knowledge. On this subject, as well as many more, I continue to learn. With the Mid-East, as usually there is much more than meets the eye and.. so much more history than most care to acknowledge or accept. To the seekers!!!